Last post on Dec 28, 2005 at 7:56 PM
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#1726 of 1735 From what I've experienced...
Dec 28, 2005 (7:01 pm)
...GM already makes a good product. I'd say any GM car made today is better than the best car made by anybody 10 years ago. The differences are so negligible, people are really reaching to find things wrong with them. Why is it my GM cars have been so good to me? Were they all made by a special team of quality technicians and top-drawer craftsmen? Am I so extremely lucky that I should be going to the track every day and Atlantic City or Vegas every night? Do I take that much better care of my vehicles they last so long? It sounds implausible.
#1728 of 1735 Nobody told me...
Dec 28, 2005 (7:09 pm)
...what a fair wage for an auto assembly worker should be. I guess $12 an hour would be great if all the other jobs available were at Wal-Mart for $8 an hour or less. That is where we're heading. It would work if the prices for housing, cars, and everything else fell in line with such a pittance.
#1729 of 1735 enough hindsight...
Dec 28, 2005 (7:10 pm)
It's too late to undo the slide.
Let's focus on what GM and Ford need to do to survive and grow again.
But "make good cars" isn't enough... making great cars might not be enough either, given the other problems they have (costs, bad roll-outs, bad publicity, resale, the rebate image, etc.).
"Pay less" isn't enough to save them either. GM could cut loads of money out of their costs, and still just break even.
imo, a turnaround can only start with an infrastructure shrinkage to a realistic size. The UAW won't let them, but honest negotiations can't start until GM admits it has to shrink that much. They still sound like they think they can have half the market to themselves... Once they lay out a real plan to start afresh as a medium-sized car company, then we can blame everyone who stands in their way (namely the UAW). But it starts with GM's management, or no one will have any reason to take them seriously.
#1731 of 1735 Re: From what I've experienced... [lemko]
Dec 28, 2005 (7:18 pm)
GM already makes a good product.
I agree. GM makes good products, and it appears that they appeal to a sizeable, albeit shrinking demographic.
If GM wants to start increasing its market share, or wants to start selling their cars w/o massive incentives, they need to start paying more attention to the competition.
It's not as if Toyota/Honda/Hyundai are all standing still, waiting for GM to catch up.
Chrysler seemed to hit the mark w/ their 300; why can't GM?
Why is it my GM cars have been so good to me?
Maybe you were just lucky? Audi/Volkswagen has been good to me too, but I know they do not have stellar reputation when it comes to reliability.
#1732 of 1735 Re: enough hindsight... [carlisimo]
Dec 28, 2005 (7:35 pm)
imo, a turnaround can only start with an infrastructure shrinkage to a realistic size.
I wonder how Nissan was able to shrink during their turnaround. I'd assume Japan is heavily unionized, and with their system of lifetime employment, it must've gotten pretty ugly over there.
But it starts with GM's management, or no one will have any reason to take them seriously.
How low does the stock have to go before the shareholders revolt?
#1733 of 1735 Re: Ford, GM, mopar...take note [bumpy]
Dec 28, 2005 (7:37 pm)
Less than that. Their entry-lux RWD sedan and coupe should be here by 2008.
I'll believe it when I see it. I also don't think they'll be competitive right out of the shoot with whatever they start with. It's gonna take 2-3 generations. Look at how far behind Lexus and Infiniti still are...
#1734 of 1735 Re: Nobody told me... [lemko]
Dec 28, 2005 (7:55 pm)
..what a fair wage for an auto assembly worker should be.
Maybe $30 per hour is a fair wage for some people working in auto industry. But maybe $8 per hour is too much for other people working in the same company. I don't know what is a fair wage. I guess it all depends on how much value your job adds to the product. It also depends on how complicated your job is, it depends on how many other people are willing to work for less money then you and do the same job.
Its a free market: supply and demand. There is a certain supply of labor force and there is a certain demand for labor from companies. What the law of supply and demand tells us is that Ford and GM pay too much for labor. Why you ask? Because the will lay off 60,000 people in a year. It means that there is too much labor. In economic terms the price of labor has to fall to restore equilibrium point. The supply of labor exceeds the demand for labor.
What does all of this have to do with cars? Well if the price of labor falls, then Ford and GM will be able to build better cars for less money. That should benefit the consumer.
Dec 28, 2005 (7:56 pm)
This discussion has run its course and is being made read only.