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#88 of 116 Re: VW Greenest Re: green [moparbad]
Sep 13, 2006 (9:13 am)
LOL talk about quoting out of context. The total quote" JD Power also reckons VW is the most environmentally friendly manufacturer in the USA, because it is the leading supplier of diesel cars over there. "
Diesel environmentally friendly is an oxymoron.
#89 of 116 Re: VW Greenest Re: green [midnightcowboy]
Sep 13, 2006 (9:36 am)
They're looking at it from a european angle, so naturally their bias is very pro-diesel.
One of the euro mags held a diesel vs. hybrid comparison test and naturally they took a highway road trip to measure fuel economy. The diesel won (duh!). Such vacations represent, what, about 10-15 days out of the year when we're on vacation?
Do the same thing on a routine commute, where most people are in the a city or at least in stop-n-go traffic. The hybrid would win easily, and that's where you tend to be about the 200+ days per year that you work.
#90 of 116 Re: VW Greenest Re: green [moparbad]
Sep 13, 2006 (10:24 am)
VW beat Honda by a slim margin of 2 points on a 1,000 point scale.
And Honda has SIX cars in the Top 30.
Toyota has FIVE cars in the Top 30.
VW has only their THREE dirty diesels.
I have e-mailed JD Power about this study to try and get their reasoning as to how they could come to such an unreasonable conclusion.
VW cannot even SELL 2007 models of their TDI cars in the 5 clean-air states because they are so dirty.
The "world's cleanest diesel car" cannot be sold in the USA clean air states either.
#91 of 116 Re: VW Greenest Re: green [larsb]
Sep 13, 2006 (10:27 am)
Yep, to get one in California it has to be used and beyond a certain number of miles, because it's not clean enough to meet CARB standards.
Even Mercedes' new BlueTec is not clean enough - they will only sell it in 45 states, and that is with urea-injection technology.
#92 of 116 Re: VW Greenest Re: green [larsb]
Sep 13, 2006 (1:06 pm)
"VW beat Honda by a slim margin of 2 points on a 1,000 point scale. "
Yet, they beat them.
I think the issue is, what is "green" exactly. Diesel does have some more particulate and NoX than petrol. On the other hand, it achieves better fuel economy, has more of a path to renewable fuel, will likely last longer, and have less of an environmental impact in manufacture and disposal.
Sep 13, 2006 (1:08 pm)
I was surprised, I expected someone like Hyundai to win, because they don't make many big cars or trucks. Selling mostly Accents and Elantras means their average fuel use is probably very low.
VW had the Phaeton and Touareg, which are basically guzzlers in the big picture.
Sep 14, 2006 (10:31 am)
Reliability should play a role in the "green-ness" of a car
not sure how'd you'd figure it in, but it should be figured in
#95 of 116 Re: VW [alp8] Number 2 pencils
Sep 14, 2006 (12:20 pm)
I also think the number of number 2 pencils the car can carry and the degree of paint fade should also figure in. While we are at it especially from a "green" standpoint, the average power consumption of the car and the maximum decibels of the radio should laso be factored in. The Coeffiecinet of Drag causes environmental air disturbance and has been coorelated to the shift of the North Americna jet stream and the effect on increase methane gas and global warming. I also think we need to identify the worker ethics of the workers than make each car and to determine how environmentally sound the workers are and what extra conservation steps they take., especailly using recycled paper for company memos and bulletins. Which gets back to the number of environmentally friendly Number 2 pencils the car can carry. Number 3 are too hard and require significantly more polluting resources to creats.
Come to think of it wouldn't the truly greennest car be one that has quit running and stays parked all the time?
You have to be careful of this thread could easliy go off on irrelevant tangets and become utterly meaningless.
#96 of 116 Re: VW [alp8] Number 2 pencils [midnightcowboy]
Sep 14, 2006 (1:36 pm)
I'm sure any automaker could add their own criteria and assumptions to put themselves on top. Or in last.
Example: Lexus are reliable, but they have a "replace to not repair" policy, so a lot of used parts are discareded. That creates a lot of waste.
VW replaced so many ignition coils that they could not build them quickly enough and dealers ran out of stock. Where'd all the bad ones end up? I hope they got recycled.