Last post on Mar 24, 2008 at 9:20 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Acura RL, Audi A6, BMW 5 Series, Cadillac STS, Cadillac CTS, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Lexus GS 300, Lexus IS 350, Sedan
#83 of 102 Re: First comes the GT-R...Next...a Sedan [habitat1]
Jan 03, 2008 (7:15 pm)
you are correct, infact its AWD that will be gone in a matter of time, if all racing circuits keep banning audi quattro from racing (especially from the boys at porche).
so my question to habitat1 is, why doesnt porche put the GT2 in, and race the awd audi boys?
imho any rwd boys have no chance of victory against QUATTRO, so they banned them instead.
kind of makes you think who's making a, d a statement.
happy & healthy new year to you & your's!
#84 of 102 Re: First comes the GT-R...Next...a Sedan [unlimitedjoe]
Jan 04, 2008 (3:34 am)
Look, Joe, you can make or justify your decision for getting an AWD sedan based upon its use an Audi race car if you want. Heck, you can base it on sunspot events, for all I care, with about the same degree of relevancy.
Audi's success with their R10 TDI race car is impressive. But it has nothing to do with my evaluation of or decision regarding a family sedan, sport sedan or sports car. With the exception of the limited production R8, Audi doesn't even make a sports car, and the company's "sport" sedans are exceedingly heavy and dull compared to every one of their comparable counterparts from BMW, IMO. I have driven the A4 and A6 Quatro's on several occasionas as service loaners and was entirely underwhelmed by their performance and driving feel.
With respect to the R8, I'll get my chance to give an informed opinion on January 24. My Porsche dealer is also an Audi dealer and they are having a special charity event to celebrate their move to a new location/showroom. I have been promised a 10 minute test drive in the R8. I am working on the Porsche GM to allow me a test drive of his personal GT3 back to back to compare. But, for what it's worth, look at the numbers:
R8 vs. GT3
Horsepower: 420 vs. 415 = Audi 5 more
Torque: 317 vs. 300 = Audi 17 more
Curb weight: 3,605 vs. 3,075 = Audi 530 lbs more (ouch!)
0-60: 4.4 vs. 3.9 = Porsche 0.5 faster
EPA: 13/20 vs. 17/24 = Porsche 25%+/- more fuel efficient.
You are welcome to pretend you are in a R10 TDI driving your AWD sedan. Of course, to be true to the Audi, you'd need to replace your engine with a diesel powerplant. And replace your manual transmission or slushbox automatic with a $25k+ DSG. And replace your tires with 150 mile treadlife slicks, lower the car down to 1/2 inch over the pavement, stiffen the suspension to handle 3 g turns, put in a roll cage and 5 point racing harness, throw in a fire extinguisher or two....
Me, I'll stick with the reality that a street legal production sport sedan or sports car is a different animal than a multi million dollar purpose built race car. And Audi might do well to take just a little of that engineering prowess from Formula One and redirect it to making their production cars a little less obese.
#85 of 102 Re: First comes the GT-R...Next...a Sedan [habitat1]
Jan 04, 2008 (9:08 am)
As a recent Audi purchaser (2008 A6 4.2) I relied heavily on all these boards to learn about other owner experiences and, of course, make the fateful BMW vs Audi comparison.
I think Habitat1 has hit the nail on the head: a street legal production "performance luxury sedan," Audi or BMW, that I can find in a showroom or order from a dealer is so far removed from the racing vehicles that we read about in these discussions that the debates basically become purely hypothetical. These are not vehicles I am going to be driving anytime soon -- at least not on the way to work on with my family!
And my two humble cents on why I chose the Audi over the 5-series:
1) Interior quality blew away BMW. Not even close.
2) Exterior A6 design is cleaner than the busy, over-designed 5 series. (IMHO)
3) The 4.2's V-8 and sport suspension helps adjust for "obesity," although it still does not touch the 5-series for handling.
#86 of 102 Re: First comes the GT-R...Next...a Sedan [jc07]
Jan 04, 2008 (11:12 am)
Is there that much of a difference in the AWD "feel" of the A6 vs. the 5'er to make a difference. Obviously, not in your case. It seems to be like splitting hairs.
The 5 is a porker to an enthusiast due to the way over 3,000 lb. weight of an E60/61. That is why it is in a different class and I would think from the amount of these I see on the roads, quite a popular car for an non-enthusiast.
The A6 must be very close to the 535xi.
As previously reported, I see more xi versions than the standard i where I live. The marketing hype seems to be doing just fine for BMW. The real answer is these are all fine cars and there is no collusive plan to overthrow the enthusiasts at BMW.
This seems to be a new day at BMW and the weight thing is relative. The new M3 is not going to change anytime soon retrospect to the pre-2000 M series weight/size class. At >400 HP, there is enough sport in this evolution and I am sure the chassis should handle the added power just fine.
#87 of 102 Re: First comes the GT-R...Next...a Sedan [circlew]
Jan 04, 2008 (11:41 am)
I found a difference in handling (but not that I drive in a way that will remind me of that). Also - the 535i & xi have the new straight six with twin turbos. That engine is unbelievable from a dead stop. But again, I am not going to typically operate the vehicle that way.....
Overally very happy with my Audi.
#88 of 102 Re: First comes the GT-R...Next...a Sedan [jc07]
Jan 04, 2008 (1:29 pm)
Here's wishing you the best in your A6.
#89 of 102 Re: First comes the GT-R...Next...a Sedan [habitat1]
Jan 04, 2008 (6:00 pm)
how are you,
we must have some kind of misunderstanding, my feeling with you is that rwd is more superior than awd?
if i'm wrong, EXCUSE ME please.
because my opinion has been obvious, that AWD vs RWD is only tenths of a second difference, either way!
safe & fun driving gentleman!
#90 of 102 Hey guys @ my age I'm learning
Jan 04, 2008 (8:45 pm)
that as we grow older we learn to compromise.
I test drove a 528XI and found it handled great but did not have enough power. I tried the 535XI and was wowed by it. I read the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety report on side impact and decided against it.
For me the next best thing is an A6. Because I'm old and learning to compromise I drive an AWD with all seasons. I get in the car and whatever nature throws at me I pretty much can deal with it. So maybe Shipo and the rest of you guys should calm down, learn how to be tolerant and let us old guys feel good about driving our AWD's:). We feel safe in them.
#91 of 102 Re: Hey guys @ my age I'm learning [jeqq]
Jan 04, 2008 (10:22 pm)
well said, infact when my son who is 22 is pasing me at the track,( amongst many other highend RWD sport cars. i also own a Z06) yes i worry for his safety, but understand the joy of racing, and that his somewhat modified R32 is a blast to ride!
so to say whats better is only in theory( awd or rwd ) in which is more faster or nimble comes down to the driver, and how fast or hooked up his ride is.
when it comes to stock cars, in everyday driving, the significant difference comes down to weather, be it dry, wet, snowy or even sandy, for me it will always be AW Driving!
safe & fun driving gentleman.
#92 of 102 Re: Hey guys @ my age I'm learning [unlimitedjoe]
Jan 04, 2008 (10:43 pm)
Actually, it has nothing to do with which is quicker, more stable, or safer. It's all about how satisfying it is behind the wheel.
If I had to deal with a lot of inclement weather, instead of a 335xi, I'd buy a 335i and a 10 year-old Nissan Pathfinder.