Last post on Mar 24, 2008 at 9:20 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Acura RL, Audi A6, BMW 5 Series, Cadillac STS, Cadillac CTS, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Lexus GS 300, Lexus IS 350, Sedan
#63 of 102 Re: Revise the title of this thread...! [wwest]
Dec 31, 2007 (11:53 am)
Actually, the emphasis here is the luxury performance sedans - we'll leave it as it is for now.
Happy New Year everyone!!
#64 of 102 The Last 3 days...
Dec 31, 2007 (1:11 pm)
I have seen a lot of new 5 and 3 series cars aound town (Central NJ) and they were all the xi 335/535xi versions...you'd think we were deep in the snow belt or something! Do those owners know something I don't?
The thing is, the buying public (non-enthusiasts) are voting for the traction upgrade, particularly on the high-end sedans as it becomes an available option. If you add the pending CUV/SAV/?AV craze to the list of AWD vehicles in the US and Europe, this trend continues unabated.
Oh well, there is still the Lexus top end hold out...Infinity,Cadillac, Lincoln have crumbled to AWD options and Mercedes long ago. Even Porsche, king of the sports car went mad awhile back! Audi and Subaru really led the way as far as sedans go.
Will it ever go back to strictly RWD?
Happy New Year and Best Regards to All.
#65 of 102 Re: The Last 3 days... [circlew]
Jan 02, 2008 (9:51 am)
Will it ever go back to strictly RWD?
No - and it shouldn't. There are a lot of folks out there that want/need AWD and if I were to move back to my former hometown, with 100+ inches of snow a year, I'd test drive both a 535i and ix before I made up my mind.
If there is any drivetrain configuration that should get the axe it is FWD for anything other than small econoboxes. My TL 6-speed would be a great car with RWD, but the FWD drivetrain is a detriment to my driving enjoyment. I suspect it will be the last FWD car I ever own.
By the way, I just got the new issue of Porsche's "Christophorus" magazine with the new 911 GT2 on the cover. Pretty amazing. 530hp, 501 ft-lbs of torque in a RWD chassis that comes in with a curb weight of 3,175 lbs. It doesn't beat the AWD's 0-60 time, but the early test track times around Nurburgring put it way ahead of the Turbo, the Nissan GT-R and within a second or two of the all time production car record holder, the $450,000 Carerra GT. It certainly appears that Porsche still considers RWD the way to go in a pure sports car.
#66 of 102 Re: The Last 3 days... [habitat1]
Jan 02, 2008 (10:11 am)
I absolutely agree regarding pure sports and rwd/MT, no-nannies, please. I read up on the GT-2 and you can use it as a daily driver to boot! Awesome but since it will be a limited edition, I'll bet the MSRP will skyrocket in the re-sale arena.
I understand it's not good to invest in autos but it is enticing to be able to get some excitement and a little earnings at the same time. The GT-2, like the F-430, are my rendition of going for broke and smiling all the way! When I retire, I'd like to spend half my time on the course and half at the track...sans AWD!!!
#67 of 102 Snow update...
Jan 02, 2008 (10:30 am)
Well here it is, the second day of January, and our town has already had almost 50" of snow this season. In fact, most of the towns in our area (including ours) eclipsed the previous mark for snow in December, a mark that (in every case) has stood for 131 years (December 1876), and by a healthy ten to fifteen percent margin too I might add.
All in all, I have not seen a single snow fall since we've lived up here that would justify the expense, weight and loss of responsiveness of an AWD system. That said, the poor folks who live on the east side of our street are traction challenged with even a dusting, and in almost every case, they NEED a vehicle equipped with AWD to even have a chance of getting up their driveways. I say a "chance" because even that is often not enough. A couple of weeks back one of our neighbors came home late and in spite of the fact that the plow had already cleared his driveway (it snowed an inch or two after the plow came), and in spite of the fact that he took his usual running start, he only made it half way up with his winter tire shod Audi A6 Quattro before he lost traction and slid some twenty feet back down, finally coming to a stop completely sideways.
If I lived on that side of the street, I'd be driving AWD cars as well, that said, my driveway has only a 9% grade and presents no challenge for any car with a decent set of tires, regardless of drivetrain layout.
#68 of 102 Re: Snow update... [shipo]
Jan 02, 2008 (10:40 am)
Thanks for this update and there are no panaceas for any wheel drive...I understand you can get a heated driveway to help with ice but for long driveways, I doubt the expense is worth it. I also do not think it would be that effective in 1 inch/hour snow at below 10 degrees F.
I hope the rest of the season bodes well for your neighbors. Does anyone by you use tire chains? With AWD, I would assume that somehow this would work well for certain untenable snow/ice conditions. Perhaps your A6 neighbor can use this option.
#69 of 102 Re: Snow update... [shipo]
Jan 02, 2008 (11:48 am)
If I lived on that side of the street, I'd be driving AWD cars as well
Haven't the people on that side of the street heard of a cheaper alternative to AWD? It's called a snow shovel? I can't imagine getting AWD not because of the streets and highways, but because of my own driveway.
#70 of 102 Re: Snow update... [habitat1]
Jan 02, 2008 (12:15 pm)
You haven't seen these driveways. Two hundred feet and easy thirty degree incline.
The couple that got their Audi stuck are natives of Boston and Manila. When they were house shopping he, being from Boston and all, said, "No way, not that house. We'll never get up that driveway in the winter time." She, being from Manila and having no understanding of what snow can do to a driveway said, "Oh yes, it's either THAT house or Manila."
They have a Jeep, a 4WD Dodge Ram, an AWD Volvo and the Audi A6 Quattro, and all four cars have problems getting up that driveway.
#71 of 102 Re: Snow update... [shipo]
Jan 02, 2008 (1:13 pm)
It's a far cry from Manilla but forget a sedan for that house...
#72 of 102 Re: Snow update... [shipo]
Jan 03, 2008 (4:41 am)
Two hundred feet and easy thirty degree incline.
An AWD "car" wouldn't help much. I don't know of any that can handle a 30+ degree angle of approach. If the driveway is really that steep, they would be bottoming out coming and going and leaving bumpers and other car parts on the street. Even the average crossover SUV couldn't handle that angle of approach.
Not to challenge your 30 degree incline estimate, but to put that in some perspective, 15 percent (not degrees) is the steepest commercial driveway angle allowed by building codes in my area. And it causes enough problems. When we were developing a condo project, I checked out another project that had an underground garage that everybody complained about. It had been built prior to the current code and was estimated to be at least 25 percent. I measured it with my engineer and it was 80 feet in horizontal length, dropping 15 feet. That's "only" 18.8 percent. Thirty degrees would be a 58% slope (rise would be equal to 1/2 of the total length). In your neighbors 200 feet long driveway, it would have to rise 100 feet for it to be a 30 degree slope. I've seen those kind of slopes, but they are usually marked with black (or double black) diamonds. And even then, a 1,500 foot vertical drop on a 3,000 foot long slope would be a challenge for me in my younger days.
The only vehicle I would own in that situation would be a Range Rover. A BMW "xi" anything would be a joke.
Perhaps you meant a 30 percent slope?
P.S. Trigonometry aside, it sounds like people in your area are getting good exercise.