- #2792 of 2998
-
Re: Market conditions pricing [nastacio]
by chuckhoy
-
Sep 07, 2007 (10:35 am)
-
|
|
Replying to: nastacio (Sep 07, 2007 10:25 am)
That is why I think that a comparably equipped Outlook is probably the better deal right now in some areas. The no-haggle plus the $1,000 incentive probably makes it a better deal.
|
- #2793 of 2998
-
Re: Driver Comfort [gleppert]
by mchappell
-
Sep 07, 2007 (11:13 am)
-
|
|
Replying to: gleppert (Sep 06, 2007 8:19 am)
My wife and I have noticed a couple of changes in the design of front seats since we bought our Suburban in 2000. First, the seat cushions seem to be getting shorter, front-to-back, which causes pressure points mid-thigh. Second, and most critical to us, is the fact that manufacturers seem to think that you can never have enough lumbar support. We are 40 and 41, and have never had a problem with any seats in any cars we have owned or driven. However, starting with a Honda Odyssey we bought new in January '06, we have noticed the two problems mentioned above. The Odyssey's seats caused my wife so much pain, that we had to get rid of it after 2 months. We did not take an extended test drive since we had never experienced this problem in the past. The only seats that we didn't have any lumbar issues with were in an '06 Caravan and the '06 Hyundai's (Sonata, Azera, Entourage). Heck, we rented a Grand Marquis for a couple of days, thinking the seats would be like a big comfy couch (you know, for all of the old people  ). It was the worst of the bunch, and we returned it early.
Is there, indeed, an industry-wide move to make auto seats more orthopedically 'correct'? Is our posture so bad that these 'correct' seats cause us more harm then good?
We are now in an '07 Outlook. I'm still not thrilled with the lumbar support, as it's only the 'least-bad' of everything we looked at that met our needs. I think the only saving grace is the fact that the Outlook lets you move the lumbar up and down, as well as in and out. I just wish it would move in a little more.
Prior to the last 18 months, I had never given any thoughts to seats. Now, I think about it every time I drive. I'd really like my Suburban back, even with the high gas prices. (and yes, we did look at new Suburbans - they weren't nearly as comfortable or roomy as our 2000, IMO).
Mark
|
- #2794 of 2998
-
Re: sometimes, a car just doesn't fit you [nastacio]
by steve_ HOST
-
Sep 07, 2007 (11:23 am)
-
|
|
Replying to: nastacio (Sep 07, 2007 10:10 am)
are you implying that Saturn may overestimate your trade in for slow selling vehicles
Never tried it, but why not? Shouldn't be too hard to finagle the numbers to bump up the value of your creampuff.
|
- #2795 of 2998
-
Re: sometimes, a car just doesn't fit you [gleppert]
by nelsoncm
-
Sep 07, 2007 (11:36 am)
-
|
|
Replying to: gleppert (Sep 07, 2007 6:07 am)
It took just under a week to start noticing my hip/back problem with the Jeep GC. At first, I thought maybe I needed steprails to help me get in and out, so I purchased some. No help. I soon realized it was a combo of me being short, the seat sitting high, and the pedals sitting slightly to the left of the very wide center console. Funny part is, I had driven a Grand Cherokee as a loaner a few months earlier and had it for about 4 days with no problems -- in fact that's what made me start looking at Jeeps. And since nobody lets you take a week-long test drive, what can you do? I returned to Saab because i think their seats are about the most comfy out there. Especially if you can get the ventilated seats with the cooling fans --oh my God! I had those in my old saab, didn't get them with this new one and boy do I miss 'em! Listen though, lose the money, get outta your pain machine, maybe find a nice pre-owned more traditional car, where you don't have to deal with high seating positions. I was literally in tears because I tried to tough it out in the Jeep for those 2.5 months. It's not worth it!
|
- #2796 of 2998
-
Re: Driver Comfort [mchappell]
by nelsoncm
-
Sep 07, 2007 (11:46 am)
-
|
|
Replying to: mchappell (Sep 07, 2007 11:13 am)
I agree with you on the shorter seat bottoms. Terribly unsupportive. And I'm only 5ft 2in! Or, if they give you decent front seats, the back seat is really short, I guess to give you the illusion of legroom. Based on my own experience, I'm sticking with station wagons. I've had a Merc Sable and now two Saab 9-5s. I get the cargo room I need, and I have small family (hubby, son and dog), which helps. And i don't have to feel guilty about gas mileage or depleting the ozone! : )
|
- #2797 of 2998
-
Re: sometimes, a car just doesn't fit you [steve_]
by nastacio
-
Sep 07, 2007 (11:54 am)
-
|
|
Replying to: steve_ (Sep 07, 2007 11:23 am)
That would be even more interesting considering that the trade-in value is discounted from the sales tax. Sweeeet
|
- #2798 of 2998
-
Re: Market conditions pricing [chuckhoy]
by seloo
-
Sep 08, 2007 (4:22 am)
-
|
|
Replying to: chuckhoy (Sep 07, 2007 10:35 am)
Sorry, I do not agree. Bottom line: Market conditions pricing is just a scam. If you fall for it, then shame on you! If you walk away, the dealers will not employ this insulting tactic, but you cannot really blame them because as we all know there plenty of suckers born every minute.
In my opinion, the no-haggle price is also another scam. It is like paying full MSRP (and in many cases more) for a car. It reminds me of a saying my Grandmother always told me when I wanted to purchase something 'a f--l and his money will soon part!'
For me, the no-haggle price combined with the other issues (although not completely substantiated by the current sample size) associated with the Outlook make this car a poorer value when compared to other cars in this class. I like GM's idea (it is a nice car), but when you compare price, safety, design, etc.. Mazda and Hyundai seem to be a better overall value. There seems to be a general consensus among automotive experts to substantiate this claim.
To each their own, that is what makes this country a great place. Good luck!
|
- #2799 of 2998
-
Re: Market conditions pricing [seloo]
by 62vetteefp
-
Sep 08, 2007 (4:55 am)
-
|
|
Replying to: seloo (Sep 08, 2007 4:22 am)
NOt everyone enjoys/will like to negotiate a price with a salesperson. Hence Saturn. If you think the price is too high then walk away and go to a GMC store. Easy as that. If Saturn does not sell enough of a product and they feelit is due to price it will be adjusted. So far I have not heard of any price adjustments at Saturn (Did they drop prices with the rest of GM 3 years ago when GM cut incentives?).
|
- #2800 of 2998
-
Re: Market conditions pricing [62vetteefp]
by seloo
-
Sep 08, 2007 (5:23 am)
-
|
|
Replying to: 62vetteefp (Sep 08, 2007 4:55 am)
There is your first mistake, negotiate with a salesperson. You need to have some understanding of the business before you walk on the dealer's lot.
I fully understand that no one really enjoys dealing with a car dealership over the price of a car.
On the other hand, you pay a high premium for the no-haggle deal.
Additionally, Saturn uses incentives to sell their cars. Current the Outlook XE has a $1K allowance. I have seen postings claiming that the Outlook will lower its price because of direct competition with GMC. We will see.
Good luck!
|
- #2801 of 2998
-
Re: Driver Comfort [mchappell]
by joeblack1
-
Sep 08, 2007 (11:48 am)
-
|
|
Replying to: mchappell (Sep 07, 2007 11:13 am)
I agree about the seats. Many of them are too short, and offer poor thigh support for that reason. That was my impression of the Honda Odyssey that I drove.
|
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
SUVs 
