Last post on Apr 21, 2013 at 12:52 PM
You are in the BMW 3-Series
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Tires
#3044 of 3108 Re: Insurance and short mileage is not an excuse. [boston303]
Apr 24, 2012 (7:19 pm)
I don't know of any instance where BMW has told customers that GFT tires can't be installed on their vehicles...especially since M series cars come with GFT tires and a repair kit, but no spare.
While I share your opinion that BMW should offer the option of GFT .vs. RFT at the time of purchase, along with the trunk space for a space-saver spare, I also recognize the potential positives the RFT tires provide in certain circumstances.
A $400 tire on a $15,000 car is expensive.... Not so much on a $50,000 car. Both cars will get you to your destination, but some elect to pay the extra amount for the nicer car.
For some, the negatives are outweighed by the capabilities RFTs provide... lower mileage, harsher ride, higher price.
Others don't see any advantage to RFT's at all, even though they do allow your wife or young daughter to continue driving to a safe spot in a bad area late at night with a flat. Of course, that isn't applicable to everyone.
That's why I would like to see tire type choice as an option.
#3045 of 3108 Re: Insurance and short mileage is not an excuse. [boston303]
May 02, 2012 (6:13 pm)
Your post is very inaccurate.
1. The price is not $400, it is close to $250-$300 (at least for those I have - 225/45/17 and 255/40/17 from 328i w/ sports package. Now, more extreme low profiles (18" wheels, wider/larger sizes) likely will cost more.
2. But so would same brand and model GFT. It is unfair to say that RFTs cost so much and compare that price to lower brand/model of GFTs - it is not apple to apple.
3. 25K tread life is not function of RFT, it is function of ultra high performance summer. GFTs of that type last exactly the same. Just ask new owners of C-class or IS with similar sports packages - they get new tires at 20K as well. Nothing to do with run flat.
4. I have owned a new 328i with RFTs (ContiSport 2 SSR) for six months not. I don't find them harsh, noisy, or any of those adjectives people throw in their descriptions. I fully expect them not to last for very long - that is their nature and if I got similar GFTs, they would not either.
I'm under impression that many people simply decided to hate those RFT regardless of actual facts on the ground. They read those are evil incarnate, so nothing good can come from them. It is possible that those first RFTs were worse and indeed were harsher and noisier, but they are evolving. My only real complaint is lack of availability of all-season tires of that size (just one model from Bridgestone) and not enough brands/models overall and inability to repair them if losing all air. I believe if you have a slow leak and not let the air out, the tire can be repaired if the puncture is on tread wall.
I also think the technology will evolve and improve, probably fairly soon.
#3046 of 3108 Re: Insurance and short mileage is not an excuse. [busiris]
May 02, 2012 (6:29 pm)
I don't totally disagree run flats may at some time be viable. BMW should offer an option. For the money and the mileage life of the tires, I would suggest getting vastly better performance from GFT in terms of handling albeit I might not get much more mileage. However, I could get GFT's that substatially have longer life at lower cost. Now if I am driving an automatic transmission I shouldn't even be in this conversation as I would not know about handling on a bet. I would suggest you are quite wrong. Needless to say Mini owners have figured this out and BMW Finance agrees with them.
I love this "For some, the negatives are outweighed by the capabilities RFTs provide... lower mileage, harsher ride, higher price. "
Did I just lean into a left hook??
Case seems well made.
May 02, 2012 (6:36 pm)
3. 25K tread life is not function of RFT, it is function of ultra high performance summer. GFTs of that type last exactly the same. Just ask new owners of C-class or IS with similar sports packages - they get new tires at 20K as well. Nothing to do with run flat
Simply not true. These tires are hardly performance tires. I have been on the track and am a National SCCA champ. If I want grip I know where to go on My BMW and my Honda S2000 these tires fail in many ways. Tell me another German manufacturer who uses these tires? BMW VERY specifically says you cannot replace the tires with GFT's Sorry you may be misinformed.
May 02, 2012 (6:59 pm)
Daughter and Wife is a good sound bight. These are hardly high performance "summer" tires. They are billed as "Mud and snows" I expect more mileage from utilitarian tires which at best is what these can be called. When did you last have a flat?Last time I did I replaced the tire before AAA showed up which was very quick!
Great discussion and I may get opinionated but hope not to be obnoxious!! Best
#3049 of 3108 Re: Insurance and short mileage is not an excuse. [dino001]
May 03, 2012 (3:23 am)
I'm afraid you are going to be attacked for this post. Some people just simply don't want to hear reasonable expanations. Everything you posted is correct, but it flies against the wind called "RFT are evil".
#3050 of 3108 Re: RFT [boston303]
by kyfdx@Edmunds HOST
May 03, 2012 (3:31 am)
When did you last have a flat?Last time I did I replaced the tire before AAA showed up which was very quick!
It happened to me, just last Friday... I was down for about 20 minutes, and still made it to work on time (another 17 miles away).
Of course, I have a spare... If I had runflats, instead of being at work, I would be on my way to a tire store (that likely wouldn't have my replacement in stock).
To be fair, that's my first flat tire of this millenium, but I'm glad I have a spare (an option that BMW doesn't provide, along with the runflats).
I don't think they are "evil", just the answer to a question that was never asked...
May 03, 2012 (3:37 am)
Best solution I had for my RFT's is to get rid of the BMW. Best move I ever made. I did get 90% of what I paid for the car because I purchased it as a used CPO. It was a fun car, however, it was a joke when it came to the cost of tires, oil changes, alignment... Waste of money for what you get, after all, it's just a car, and a 3-series at that.
#3052 of 3108 8,000+ miles..
May 03, 2012 (3:48 am)
.. now on my runflats.
[ 2011 BMW 335iS ]
If there had been an option of same size
[ 18" ] gfts AND A SPARE, I would almost certainly
have chosen that option.
As it is, the rfts appear to have improved
and the BMW suspension appears better
tuned to the rfts - based on test drives
of previous BMW 3s over the years.
For me, the ride and the handling are fine,
for my driving - never going to track the car.
Satisfied ..... One data point.
#3053 of 3108 Re: RFT [boston303]
May 03, 2012 (4:24 am)
You ask, what other German brand puts RFTs. Of course none. I ask how long factory tires last on C350 or A4 with sports package? Answer - just about the same as 328/335 with sports package. Go to their boards or tirerack posts and read all those teary complains why, oh why do I have to get new tires at 20K-30K.
You simply did not understand what I just wrote. All I'm saying SAME MODEL SAME BRAND GFTs perform about the same in terms of both grip and tread life. Now, in tire universe you can surely find something lasting longer with similar grip, but that's not the point - the point is about same universe.
This is my third car with summer UHP tires. I owned Bridgestones, BF Goodrich, Yokohamas, Dunlops, all of them were GFTs (current Contis are my first RFTs), some were summer, some were all-season. The summer tires lasted 20K+, all-seasons lasted 30K+, no more than 40K. And all of them were quite noisy, some less, some more. I consider that a price of UHP tire - soft rubber gives a grip, but it wears and howls. It is possible that some manufacturers do a better job with mitigating that or achieving a better compromise. It is also fair to hypothesise that stiff walls of RFTs make such compromise much more difficult. What's not fair, is to say "I owned X model of Y brand on Z car and it was better than this one, so all RFT are just evil".
Track use is what I call "specialty", where everything is focused on one thing - making shorter lap time. RFTs are not built for that and the manufacturers do not make claims they are. I would not use RFTs on track, either - makes no sense. You add weight and use something that has altered properties vs. technology that is proven. RFTs are specifically built so Joe/Jane Shmo consumer (i.e. me) gets a bit larger storage in the back and can drive a bit more. It's a result of German obsession with limiting waste (spare tires are just that in their view) and result of statistical analysis of costs to owners of one option vs. the other (No, I know, it may not work for you or even me, but they look at those differently).
I never said I love those things - I'd rather have the GFT with spare, but BMW chose for me. I'm not exactly happy about it and it would be one thing I'd change in my new car, if I had such choice. What I'm against is demonizing things and making assertions by unfair comparisons, or using outdated evidence. All I know, my current 328 RFTs are not particularly harsh or noisy (though some surfaces do seem to bring the noise more than others), offer quite decent grip on my non-track driving and will probably wear early, just as GFT Dunlops did on my previous car (and those were much noisier). They are not perfect, but they are not evil incarnate.