Last post on May 20, 2009 at 1:33 PM
You are in the BMW 3-Series
What is this discussion about?
Lexus IS, Lexus IS 250, Lexus IS 350, BMW 3 Series, Sedan
Feb 28, 2006 (9:10 pm)
I'll give you about 6 good reasons we got a 1996 Trooper with a 5-speed:
(1) Initial cost - Saved $1,000 over a crappy slushbox.
That may have been the case with the ancient Trooper, but does not make any sense with the desire for manual MDX.
(2) Potential maintenance and repairs - none were required, but automatic repalcements were $1,500 more than a clutch replacement.
Manual clutches don't exactly last long on those heavy vehicles. That's why many heavy vehicle makers, from GM to MB to Mitsu only offer automatics.
(3) Gas mileage - An extra 1 mpg city, 2 highway.
(4) Acceleration - with the 5 speed, the 4,500 lb Trooper was slow, with the automatic, it was ridiculously slow.
But doesn't make sense for MDX either.
(5) Snow/Mud performance - My hometown gets 100+ inches a year. My wife's 80+ inches. DC a lot less. But we pulled a neighbors Grand Cherokee after it got stuck and could only spin it's wheels, even with anti-slip differentials. I rocked that Trooper out of snow and mud that would bog down any automatic, including our MDX.
Here is where the "electronic nanny" traction control and electronicly controlled TOD really help a lot.
(6) Ability - My wife CAN chew bubble gum and walk at the same time. And given the 5 advantages above, wasn't afraid to.
Bingo, that's the real reason: just to show them how capable she is.
Yes, and I even owned one of those Supras. But check your calander. It's 2006 and Toyota/Lexus punted that entire sports car / coupe segment many years ago because, in spite of your belief that they are conquering the globe, they got their butt handed to them as they became too lazy or stupid to keep up with the competition.
Check your own calendar . . . some people are now marvelling at the 306hp output from the 3L turbo that BMW is releasing this month . . . the ancient Supra 3L turbo made 320hp over a decade ago. In case you did not realize, the sports car / coupe market has been dead in the last few years, thanks to the desire for safety and panache . . . Any carmaker that went whole hog for sports car / coupe market faces eminent extinction. Even Porsche is has been making SUV's for a couple years now, while Mitsu is a walking zombie despite Eclipse having practically dominated the non-luxury import sport coupe market in unit sales for nearly a decade. The market segment is simply dead, and superseded by entry-luxury sedans with sporty pretensions.
#759 of 1527 Re: Well [brightness04]
Feb 28, 2006 (9:56 pm)
Habitat1’s reasons seem reasonable to me…they were his personal preferences…how could you challenge them?
A 1994 Supra Turbo also had an MSRP of 44,100 (plus options). I’m not sure what 44K+ from 12 years ago equates to today…but if this little time warp game were to continue I would venture to say the new 3 series turbo would be cheaper (and better in every way). If the 12 year old engine was so great, why didn’t they just transplant it into the IS…we all know the answer…it’s a silly game
#760 of 1527 Re: Well [brightness04]
Mar 01, 2006 (4:48 am)
"Bingo, that's the real reason: just to show them how capable she is."
You think so? Seven years ago (at 40) she ran the Marine Corp. Marathon 5 months after a C-section and beat the time she last ran it at the age of 25. Last year, she beat that time at the Boston Marathon. Driving a manual transmission may be a challenge for you (and/or your wife if you have one), but it is hardly something my wife would consider a badge of accomplishment. It's a personal preference based upon REAL experience. So keep your inexperienced BS speculation to yourself.
You have ir-rationalized every reason in the world why we should all be driving automatic transmissions. So I have to agree, the electronic nanny-ized, slushbox IS350 was made just for you. You can try to hide you inexperience, inability or just lazyness behind the 306 hp engine. But be forewarned, if you ever grow up and get bored of stomping your foot on the gas and want to actually learn how to really drive a "sports sedan", don't apply to Skip Barber driving school. They don't teach on automatics. Take it up with them as to why.
#761 of 1527 We really
Mar 01, 2006 (5:17 am)
need to stop making this personal, folks ...
#762 of 1527 Re: Well [brightness04]
Mar 01, 2006 (5:30 am)
Check your own calendar . . . some people are now marvelling at the 306hp output from the 3L turbo that BMW is releasing this month . . . the ancient Supra 3L turbo made 320hp over a decade ago.
Yes, the $50k+ 1996 Supra TT had 320 horsepower. And, other than in a straight line at the Bonneville Salt Flats, a $33k 240 hp 2006 Honda S2000 will outperform it on any track or on any set of real roads that aren't lined with stoplights. The behemoth Supra, perhaps good for it's day, had all of the finesse and balance of a sledgehammer. The S2000 was a surgeon's scalpel by comparison. My opinion/experience from having owned both.
In case you did not realize, the sports car / coupe market has been dead in the last few years, thanks to the desire for safety and panache . . . Any carmaker that went whole hog for sports car / coupe market faces eminent extinction.
No, I guess as I stood in line to write a check for a 997 I hadn't noticed that. And, I guess you didn't notice that in spite of near invoice pricing on the Cayenne, Porsche is still selling enough 911's and Boxsters at close to full MSRP to be the most profitable car company on the planet. Extinction?
The bottom line for me is that Toyoyta/Lexus' resume for building a competitive "sport" anything - sedan, coupe or sports car - is weathered, old, and tarnished. And if they still have any engineers left with a real passion for designing such a car, they must have been out to lunch when the slushbox transmission decision was made.
Mar 01, 2006 (7:08 am)
After shopping both the 330i and IS350, my goddaughter ended up getting a pristine 2005 M3 w/ 4,000 miles. It was being traded in on a new M5. They threw in a 7 year, 100K mile extended warranty on top of the BMW free maintenance plan.
However, I have to chuckle at this automatic vs. manual debate. I have a 2003 M5, one of my business partners has a 2002 E55. Our discussions are a lot more civil than the ones in this forum, but after talking about how powerful the E55 engine is and how great AMG automatics are, it only takes a beer or two to get him to confess he wishes his wife could/would learn to drive a stick.
And it was U.S. BMW enthusiasts, not content with a 7-speed SMG matched to the new M5's 504 hp V10 that forced BMW to offer a manual 6-speed alternative. It's almost sure to be a tick slower than the 4.3 second 0-60 "launch assisted" SMG, but winning drag races has never been been what BMW was about.
My guess is that Lexus will intorduce a 6-speed version of the IS350 within a year and make it into a media event. No one can deny that they are experts at marketing, if not performance engineering.
#764 of 1527 Re: Newbie - I dig this thread. [pg48477]
Mar 01, 2006 (7:44 am)
I'm going to disagree, but not from an engineering standpoint. I have witnessed that ALL Lexuses (Lexi?) have a stability nanny that can't be fully defeated, even the 230 horsepower ES 330. Do you think 230 horsepower is too much for the Camry chassis? I doubt it; its solid as a rock.
I'm not saying I agree with the fact that VDIM shouldn't have a shutoff, but it's not an I-S - only problem.
If Lexus wants to keep it on at ALL times, at least give it a track/competition mode that won't intervene until SERIOUS loss of control.
#765 of 1527 Need a part for my BMW
Mar 01, 2006 (8:01 am)
Does anyone know where I can get a laser engraved plate for my BMW... I want to have it crystallized by the guys at AutoIcing.com
#766 of 1527 Re: Need a part for my BMW [tdaniel2000]
Mar 01, 2006 (8:05 am)
This is the wrong forum for that type of question; this is not a BMW parts forum.
I am sure with a little digging you can find a BMW parts forum.
#767 of 1527 Re: Need a part for my BMW [tdaniel2000]
Mar 01, 2006 (8:41 am)
What model BMW do you have?
You can find dedicated BMW discussions on any model by using the make/model search on the left. It would be better to ask in one of those than in a discussion whose specific purpose is as a comparo.
Drop me an email if you need more help finding the best place for your questions - pat AT edmunds.com.