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BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS

1527 messages,  Last post on May 20, 2009 at 2:33 PM

You are in the BMW 3-Series Forum.

What is this discussion about? Lexus IS, Lexus IS 250, Lexus IS 350, BMW 3 Series, Sedan

Messages Page 76 of 153

#750 of 1527 Re: Well [brightness04] by habitat1

Feb 28, 2006 (3:51 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Feb 28, 2006 1:38 pm)
"Now, can you give me a good reason why anyone would want a manual with big hulking full-size SUV's like the Trooper and MDX? Certainly not performance, I hope"
 
I'll give you about 6 good reasons we got a 1996 Trooper with a 5-speed:
 
(1) Initial cost - Saved $1,000 over a crappy slushbox.
(2) Potential maintenance and repairs - none were required, but automatic repalcements were $1,500 more than a clutch replacement.
(3) Gas mileage - An extra 1 mpg city, 2 highway.
(4) Acceleration - with the 5 speed, the 4,500 lb Trooper was slow, with the automatic, it was ridiculously slow.
(5) Snow/Mud performance - My hometown gets 100+ inches a year. My wife's 80+ inches. DC a lot less. But we pulled a neighbors Grand Cherokee after it got stuck and could only spin it's wheels, even with anti-slip differentials. I rocked that Trooper out of snow and mud that would bog down any automatic, including our MDX.
(6) Ability - My wife CAN chew bubble gum and walk at the same time. And given the 5 advantages above, wasn't afraid to.
 
"Factual correction: this is also the same company that made GS, Supra, Celica, MR2 . . . seriously, when is BMW ever going to sell a mid-engined "real sports car" "
 
Yes, and I even owned one of those Supras. But check your calander. It's 2006 and Toyota/Lexus punted that entire sports car / coupe segment many years ago because, in spite of your belief that they are conquering the globe, they got their butt handed to them as they became too lazy or stupid to keep up with the competition.
 
The last MR2 - yeah that was the mid-engined "real sports car" that everyone should target. Even my 7 year old would be embarassed to be caught in that joke.

#751 of 1527 Re: Can a 3 do this? [dewey] by mikegiller

Feb 28, 2006 (5:35 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Feb 28, 2006 1:16 pm)
Yes, I do recall.
 
The Avalon is not a bad car at all. I have the rest of my life ahead of me, so even if I were to choose a car that "real enthusiasts" shunned - God knows that real enthusiasts can't have a car that can't hang with a Ferrari - my days of driving fun aren't over.
 
It is all about preference and compromises made. Only a real snob would refuse driving or scoff at an Avalon. The reason why I keep on comming back to the IS 350 is that it has the perfect blend of speed, agility, luxury, style, safety, and size that I want, not need. The IS 350 is not without flaw though; a switch to turn VDIM off would make things a little easier.
 
Anyways, back to what you said...
 
"Mike Giller can you recall those days?"
 
Why, are those supposed to be "dark days"?

#752 of 1527 Re: Newbie - I dig this thread. [altima35se] by pg48477

Feb 28, 2006 (8:11 pm)

Replying to: altima35se (Feb 27, 2006 10:33 pm)
I agree with you on letting BMW to get away with some problems, however the were not testing one car with VIN X to another with VIN Y. They were testing one model against another and majority of both cars would not have this problem.
 
Why editors would test vehicle with VDIM off, it is not offered to the public and Toyota definatly think that it should not be off, for whatever reason? They might as well reprogram computer in each car, very simple procedure, to increase power or make some other simple modifications to increase performance in both cars. What they did is tested two sportiest cars from each line, BMW offered manual and Lexus could not, wait they could IS250 but decided to go with 350.
 
There got to be a reason as why VDIM cannot be shut offand I happened to think the answer is simple. The chassis cannot handle the power of the engine. Ofcourse they could offer redisigned suspention but this will push the price up and IS350 expensive as it is, for a LEXUS. When it comes to performance HP is not everything especially if nanny will not allow you to use it, IS is fester 0-60 though:)

#753 of 1527 Re: Can a 3 do this? [mikegiller] by dewey

Feb 28, 2006 (8:26 pm)

Replying to: mikegiller (Feb 28, 2006 5:35 pm)
I cant disagree with you.
 
I have a friend who bought the new Avalon and loves his new Avalon. And despite this we are still friends
 
Here is my shocking confession:
If the IS350 had a stick and a VDIM button I would definitely have visited my local Lexus dealer.
Up to now I have not found a satisfactory car that excites me greatly enough to buy a new one and that includes models from that famous German marque with 3 initials.

#754 of 1527 Re: Newbie - I dig this thread. [pg48477] by mikegiller

Feb 28, 2006 (9:06 pm)

Replying to: pg48477 (Feb 28, 2006 8:11 pm)
"There got to be a reason as why VDIM cannot be shut offand I happened to think the answer is simple. The chassis cannot handle the power of the engine. Ofcourse they could offer redisigned suspention but this will push the price up and IS350 expensive as it is, for a LEXUS."
 
I am dumbfounded by your simple answer!
 
Let's have a poll: Does anybody else think that this is really that simple?
 
I, personally, think that it would take an engineer to make that sort of judgement call with some sort of evidence besides a theory.
 
Like I said: Dumbfounded.
 
dewey: You are complicated!
 
 

#755 of 1527 Re: Well [bdr127] by brightness04

Feb 28, 2006 (9:46 pm)

Replying to: bdr127 (Feb 28, 2006 3:14 pm)
So which is it, then?
 
It was in reference to that specific manual preference, for Trooper and more importantly the desire to have it in MDX . . .

#756 of 1527 Re: This is like flogging a dead horse [dewey] by brightness04

Feb 28, 2006 (9:48 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Feb 28, 2006 1:53 pm)
Naah, I wont let that one go.
Methinks that you are just trying to "save face".
 
So you couldn't even keep to your own words about being out. Me saving face? At least I'm not trying to hang my intellectual integrity on a "maybe."

#757 of 1527 Re: A copy and paste from my earlier post directed to dewey's post, 657 [dewey] by brightness04

Feb 28, 2006 (9:53 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Feb 28, 2006 1:57 pm)
A piece of cake, eh? If only our elevators could work with foot taps. I think Lexus invented a great alternative to buttons
 
Those who can not even handle two taps on the foot brake while holding down the brake pedal with the other foot while the car is parked probably are not experts at fancy foot work with three pedals anyway (heel-toe in fast corners etc.); therefore, it is probably be reasonable marketting decision to let VDIM prevent them from killing themselves.
 
Speaking of electronic nannies, wasn't BMW the one pioneered the "mess" with Continental-Teves and brought us the alphabetic soup of AST-C and VDC? None of those systems can/could be entirely turned off once it is in placed between your brake pedal and the brake pads.

#758 of 1527 Re: Well [habitat1] by brightness04

Feb 28, 2006 (10:10 pm)

Replying to: habitat1 (Feb 28, 2006 3:51 pm)
I'll give you about 6 good reasons we got a 1996 Trooper with a 5-speed:
  
(1) Initial cost - Saved $1,000 over a crappy slushbox.
 
That may have been the case with the ancient Trooper, but does not make any sense with the desire for manual MDX.
 
(2) Potential maintenance and repairs - none were required, but automatic repalcements were $1,500 more than a clutch replacement.
 
Manual clutches don't exactly last long on those heavy vehicles. That's why many heavy vehicle makers, from GM to MB to Mitsu only offer automatics.
 
(3) Gas mileage - An extra 1 mpg city, 2 highway.
 
Marginal difference.
 
(4) Acceleration - with the 5 speed, the 4,500 lb Trooper was slow, with the automatic, it was ridiculously slow.
 
But doesn't make sense for MDX either.
 
(5) Snow/Mud performance - My hometown gets 100+ inches a year. My wife's 80+ inches. DC a lot less. But we pulled a neighbors Grand Cherokee after it got stuck and could only spin it's wheels, even with anti-slip differentials. I rocked that Trooper out of snow and mud that would bog down any automatic, including our MDX.
 
Here is where the "electronic nanny" traction control and electronicly controlled TOD really help a lot.
 
(6) Ability - My wife CAN chew bubble gum and walk at the same time. And given the 5 advantages above, wasn't afraid to.
 
Bingo, that's the real reason: just to show them how capable she is.
 
Yes, and I even owned one of those Supras. But check your calander. It's 2006 and Toyota/Lexus punted that entire sports car / coupe segment many years ago because, in spite of your belief that they are conquering the globe, they got their butt handed to them as they became too lazy or stupid to keep up with the competition.
 
Check your own calendar . . . some people are now marvelling at the 306hp output from the 3L turbo that BMW is releasing this month . . . the ancient Supra 3L turbo made 320hp over a decade ago. In case you did not realize, the sports car / coupe market has been dead in the last few years, thanks to the desire for safety and panache . . . Any carmaker that went whole hog for sports car / coupe market faces eminent extinction. Even Porsche is has been making SUV's for a couple years now, while Mitsu is a walking zombie despite Eclipse having practically dominated the non-luxury import sport coupe market in unit sales for nearly a decade. The market segment is simply dead, and superseded by entry-luxury sedans with sporty pretensions.

#759 of 1527 Re: Well [brightness04] by ivan_99

Feb 28, 2006 (10:56 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Feb 28, 2006 10:10 pm)
Habitat1’s reasons seem reasonable to me…they were his personal preferences…how could you challenge them?
 
A 1994 Supra Turbo also had an MSRP of 44,100 (plus options). I’m not sure what 44K+ from 12 years ago equates to today…but if this little time warp game were to continue I would venture to say the new 3 series turbo would be cheaper (and better in every way). If the 12 year old engine was so great, why didn’t they just transplant it into the IS…we all know the answer…it’s a silly game

Messages Page 76 of 153

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