Last post on May 20, 2009 at 1:33 PM
You are in the BMW 3-Series
What is this discussion about?
Lexus IS, Lexus IS 250, Lexus IS 350, BMW 3 Series, Sedan
#62 of 1527 Re: Reliability [g17]
Oct 26, 2005 (1:22 am)
Sorry to hear about your problem with your Mercedes. I'm sure it's somewhat uncharacteristic though. My mom has a 1998 C280 and my sister has a 2004 C230. Both cars has been pretty flawless for them outside routine maintenance. The same has to be said for everyone else I know with a Mercedes.I hear stories about people's BMW experience but I don't know how bad it really is all things considered.
#63 of 1527 Define "performance" and "handling"
Oct 26, 2005 (6:32 am)
Not trying to be funny or over-critical but I think we all may be using the terms "performance" and "handling" indiscriminately.
Performance generally means things like accelerations and how fast the car goes. The more objective or "measurable" things that have more to do with a car's engine and transmission.
Handling has more to do with how well (and fast) a car takes a turn. And I would also add that it takes more into account with the subjective "feel" of a car. The handling of a car really has more to do with steering, suspension and (to a degree) the ergonomics.
Having said the above, in comparing the Lexus IS350 and the BMW 330i, I would say that the Lexus wins the former (performance) while the BMW wins the latter (handling). We each may differ on how and how much we value the differences, strengths and weaknesses of the respective cars, but I think most of us (although definitely not all) would characterize the two cars as such.
And when you think about it, that probably isn't too surprising. Lexus was definitely "aiming" for the BMW 3-series with its IS automobile and it would make perfect sense that they would come closer if not exceed in the more "objective and measurable" areas of performance yet fall short in the more "subjective" areas of handling.
I personally prefer the Lexus IS350 over the BMW 330i but BMW's do have a certain "magic" with their handling that others (not just Lexus but everyone) have been unsuccessfully trying to duplicate for years.
And on another note, European Delivery is a great option with BMW that I really am surprised more people don't take advantage of. The cost savings of even a 3-series will more than pay for the cost of the trip. Go to the section on European Delivery on the BMW website (don't know if I'm permitted to link it here) and look it up. You might be pleasantly surprised.
#64 of 1527 Re: Reliability [lovemyclk]
Oct 26, 2005 (7:14 am)
I had a hard time with it too!! Anyway the way they explained it was, the radiator failed, the trans cooler behind it didn't get enough air, causing the Trans and torque converter to run hotter than allowed, burning out both. It made sense to me when they explained it. Yep the repairs were covered. MB does fix the problems, no doubt, BUT the problems occur too frequently for me.
Oct 26, 2005 (8:57 am)
ED (the good kind)…too bad they don’t offer it with the M3. I personally would prefer to spend 48K (44K Invoice) on a “base” M3 than a loaded IS350 or 330i.
Sunroof – just gets sun in my eyes
SMG – no need in getting a performance sedan if you go this route
Power Mirrors, Seats – how many times do I need to adjust these
Heated seats/power rear shade/parking distance sonar – fluff
Stereo – Either I have the AC blowing loud, or if it’s not hot I have the windows open, so who can tell the difference.
To tell the truth…if all I wanted was “content” the just reviewed Hyundai Azera seems to offer the most for the least (plus 265hp...0-60 6.5 with an auto) for under 30K.
#66 of 1527 Re: Define "performance" and "handling" [newcars]
Oct 27, 2005 (3:44 am)
I have to disagree to some extent. I thought your definition of handling was spot on. However, to me, performance is not the exclusive domain of acceleration and speed. Rather, how well each car would do if put on a road race track. One disparate example, take a Nissan Altima V6 and a Mazda Miata. I believe the Altima V6 would win the drag race, but the Miata would win on most road race courses. I would consider the Miata to perform better, all around, then the Altima.
How about another example of similar cars, a 330i Sport versus a G35x. I would argue that for many people in the US, the G35X is the all around better performer. True, the 330 should edge the G35x in the dry, but throw a bit of rain, ice, or snow into the mix and the G35x should leave the 330i "all wet". So, the better performer would be different for someone who lives in SoCal then from someone who lives in upstate NY.
#67 of 1527 performance and handling
Oct 27, 2005 (6:34 am)
you can argue about which car wins which catagory (and of course the criteria for "winning" is going to be somewhat subjective). But, as an outsider (I don't currently own either make), both these cars have a lot of each catagory!
So, IMO, even finishing second in a camparo doesn't exactly make either car a "loser". The world just isn't quite that absolute.
But, that's why there are so many choices available, so there should be something for everyone (kinda like spouses...)
#68 of 1527 Re: Define "performance" and "handling" [sdiver68]
Oct 27, 2005 (7:58 am)
First, I'd like to add "braking" to another characteristic of performance. That is another "objective" characteristic that I would personally qualify under "performance". Having said that:
You know what, sdiver68, I don't totally disagree with you. However, I think your race course example also brings into question the idea of "handling". I would say that "performance" has to do with how fast you get from point A to point B while "handling" is more about how well you take the twists and turns. Thus, the road race brings in aspects of both.
#69 of 1527 Re: performance and handling [stickguy]
Oct 27, 2005 (7:59 am)
#70 of 1527 Re: Define "performance" and "handling" [sdiver68]
Oct 27, 2005 (8:41 am)
Comparing a 330 to a G35x is bogus - just as 330xi to G35. Compare a G35 to a 330 or a 330xi to a G35x.
#71 of 1527 Re: Define "performance" and "handling" [sdiver68]
Oct 27, 2005 (8:57 am)
"However, to me, performance is not the exclusive domain of acceleration and speed. Rather, how well each car would do if put on a road race track."
This is precisely the "performance/handling" balance that BMW builds cars to achieve. Even such things as loads on the transmission over a lengthy road race will come into the picture as a "performance" attribute. For example, Porsche builds cars that can be purchased and raced the same day right off the lot. Various BMW's can also achieve this better than the majority of their competitors.
Since we don't live on the race track, we often overlook "unseen" attributes of one car or the other... I just happen to believe BMW excels in the achievement of the overall performance balance issue.