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BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS

1527 messages,  Last post on May 20, 2009 at 2:33 PM

You are in the BMW 3-Series Forum.

What is this discussion about? Lexus IS, Lexus IS 250, Lexus IS 350, BMW 3 Series, Sedan

Messages Page 58 of 153

#567 of 1527 Re: Biturbo BMW 3 series? [kdshapiro] by brightness04

Feb 21, 2006 (8:29 am)

Replying to: kdshapiro (Feb 20, 2006 7:06 pm)
That's because BMW tunes their engines incredibly well.. It's still a 3L engine that produces over 300 hp and doesn't have to be redlined at 9K to do it
 
Let's see, Toyota accomplished that in 1993 (Supra Turbo, 320hp on 3L), Nissan in 1991 (300ZX, 300hp on 3L), and Mitsubishi in 1991 (3000GT, 300hp on 3L). If you meant the "incredibly well" tuned description for the non-turbo engine, Acura NSX as early as 1991 had close to 300hp from 3L without turbo.
 
It doesn't look like anything. Your statement is mere speculation unless of course you have some authoritative information regarding this statement.
 
It's an educated assessment much better grounded than claimng turning out a 3L turbo engine making 300hp in 2006 is a manifestation of "incredibly well" engine turning. If you paid attention to the BMW literature on the R6 engine back in 2004/5, you'd notice much emphasis was put on making the engine as short as possible (the section on using single auxilliary belt) and an explicit admission that the I-6 is one of the longest engines out there (the section on valve cover casting). What does that say about the prospect of enlarging the cynlindar bores by 15%? Not bloody likely in the forseeable future is what any thinking reader would conclude.
 
The article on R6 is linked below; try to skip the fluff market-speak and read the nuggets of facts between the lines:
 
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66513

#568 of 1527 Re: Lexus the Mighty [grylexis300] by texasmerq

Feb 21, 2006 (8:46 am)

Replying to: grylexis300 (Feb 21, 2006 3:57 am)
To be completely honest, IMO Lexus took a step backwards with the new IS. The old IS (Altezza) was a better driving experience than the current one. The new IS does have a nicer interior, better sound system/ electronics, and the IS350 is very fast but that's where the pluses stop for me. The old IS just felt better and if they would have stayed on that track I think they would have built a better 3 series fighter. They have managed however to build a better MB C-Class/ Audi A4.
 
The way I see it this class is split into 2 segments really and they just happen to be in the same price range. You have the sports sedan "enthusiast" market who are more likely to go after a BMW, Acura, or Infiniti. Then you have the sport sedan "luxury tourer" crowd who more than likely will like Lexus, Mercedes, and Audi over the aforementioned. To continue to suggest that one is better than the other is pointless because they both have their markets and it's best to just pick the better tool for the job at hand. The Lexus will probably be considered the most "comfortable." The BMW will probably be considered the most fun in the the twisties and open road.

#569 of 1527 Re: Lexus the Mighty [grylexis300] by bdr127

Feb 21, 2006 (8:52 am)

Replying to: grylexis300 (Feb 21, 2006 3:57 am)
Strange that you're comparing 5 year old models. Why are you comparing a 2004 325ci to an IS300?... I thought we were talking about current models. (???)
 
True that most people don't do a slalom course on their way to work. However, some people like to get a little spirited and take some quick curves. It has been well established by every professional driver that when it comes to staying flat in a curve and limited body roll, BMW is the clear leader. I don't know if you can find an article that refutes that, but if you do, I can guarantee you would also find hundreds to support it.
 
How this translates to every day driving, however, is best displayed in "active safety." Say you're driving down the highway at 60 mph and a deer jumps out right in front of you... or you're driving down Main St. and there's a bunch of debris in the road... or suddenly a car darts out from a side street... That is when that serious steering and handling is important to daily driving. For "weekend driving", that steering and handling is just pure fun.
 
As far as braking and handling, I'm not sure where you're getting your info and data... Road and Track, Car and Driver, Autoweek, et al, all show results with the 330i braking and handling better than the IS350. That's pretty clear cut numerical data. {shrug}
 
Practical? If you're looking to buy a sedan, you'll probably at least be somewhat interested in the rear seats. We all know that the IS350 is mighty cramped.
 
And if we want to get really practical, just look at gas mileage... 20/30 for the 330i vs 18/24 for the IS350.
 
Oh yeah, and BMW has free maintenance (oil changes, tune-ups, even replacing brakes/rotors) for 4yr/50k.

#570 of 1527 Re: Biturbo BMW 3 series? [kdshapiro] by brightness04

Feb 21, 2006 (8:59 am)

Replying to: kdshapiro (Feb 20, 2006 7:06 pm)
Also, the hyperbole about redlining at 9k, probably intended as a barb at Honda/Acura, is also ill-conceived. The 1991 Acura NSX was spec'ed at 270hp (actually more power than that) at 7000rpm, whereas 2006 BMW 330i makes 255 at 6600rpm. 6600/7000 * 270 = 255! In other words, the NSX was probably making more than 255hp even at 6600rpm simply because the turque curve is sloping down rapidly approaching power peak. That's 15 years of technological catching up, and still not quite making it for BMW.

#571 of 1527 Re: Biturbo BMW 3 series? [brightness04] by kdshapiro

Feb 21, 2006 (9:00 am)

Replying to: brightness04 (Feb 21, 2006 8:29 am)
"Supra Turbo, 320hp on 3L), Nissan in 1991 (300ZX, 300hp on 3L"
 
Forget about the past, they couldn't build the same car today due to changed air pollution regulations. so let's compare 2003 and above. A Duesseldorf also had an incredible engine, you couldn't build the same engine today.
 
"If you meant the "incredibly well" tuned description for the non-turbo engine, Acura NSX as early as 1991 had close to 300hp from 3L without turbo."
 
Agreed, not saying BMW is the only one that does it. But the Acura redlined to 9K. Subaru also manages to get 300hp/300 torque out of there 2.5L engine.
 
We won't know until the do it or don't.
 
Wow so I guess the other hot engines BMW made in the mid-80's and above doesn't count. The Acura NSX was a $90,000 bust, and you are comparing a $90K vehicle against a $40K vehicle. Let's try this whole conversation again, on a more modern car in the same price range. I guess your point is how Acura, Honda and Lexus and finally playing catch up because other companies have been making engines with the same and better output since the 1930s.

#572 of 1527 Re: Wow... [brightness04] by dave330i

Feb 21, 2006 (9:03 am)

Replying to: brightness04 (Feb 21, 2006 8:11 am)
Have to disagree on SMG, DSG (what ever acronymns Ferrari & Toyota uses) being automatics. I'd classify them as next step in manual trasmission evolution. When I think automatics, I think torque converters.
 
CVT is an interesting beast. It doesn't have a torque converter, nor does it have gears in the triditional sense. I think of them as next step in automatic transmission evolution, but I can't give you a good reason as to why I think that way.

#573 of 1527 Re: Lexus the Mighty [texasmerq] by brightness04

Feb 21, 2006 (9:05 am)

Replying to: texasmerq (Feb 21, 2006 8:46 am)
The neat bifurcation is probably what people think of the various brands (not car models), people who have no first-hand experience with any of the car models being discussed. The IS350 is a much more sporting machine than any of the rest. For open roads, only the G35 comes close in terms the visceral feel of accelearation. 330i simply does not have the torque to be even in the game.

#574 of 1527 Re: Wow... [dave330i] by brightness04

Feb 21, 2006 (9:07 am)

Replying to: dave330i (Feb 21, 2006 9:03 am)
Then why is M3 offered as manual and SMG instead of the old manual and torque-converter automatic? SMG is clearly a form of automatic.

#575 of 1527 Re: Lexus the Mighty [brightness04] by kdshapiro

Feb 21, 2006 (9:12 am)

Replying to: brightness04 (Feb 21, 2006 9:05 am)
"The IS350 is a much more sporting machine than any of the rest."
 
Well there are a bunch of people who don't share that opinion. While the 330i doesn't have as much torque, the IS and G aremt that much faster and the 3 series handily outhandles both of them.

#576 of 1527 Re: Lexus the Mighty [brightness04] by texasmerq

Feb 21, 2006 (9:25 am)

Replying to: brightness04 (Feb 21, 2006 9:05 am)
I have driven them all so I would say I DO have first hand experience. If you would recall my write up of the IS250 and IS350 test drive that I did the day they were made availible to drive, I also drove the competing cars in the class to compare the IS to. Look it up I'm sure it's up here still somewhere in one of the IS threads. Again no one is debating that the IS has more power than anything else in the class currently, but to try to act like the BMW is a Toyota Prius compared to the IS in terms of speed is ridiculous. The IS is marginally faster in the straights and I'm sure the BMW could keep up in the curves.

Messages Page 58 of 153

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