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Imported Diesels - READ ONLY

25 messages,  Last post on Jun 12, 2007 at 3:52 PM

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What is this discussion about? Diesel


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#16 of 25
Why no diesels in USA? by meyervilla
Apr 29, 2006 (9:45 pm)
I'd buy a Honda or Toyota Diesel tomorrow if one were offered. Why can't we buy the diesels sold in other countries here in the USA? Something stinks!
#17 of 25
Re: Why no diesels in USA? [meyervilla] by jkinzel
Apr 29, 2006 (11:17 pm)

Replying to: meyervilla (Apr 29, 2006 9:45 pm)

I agree, I think something stinks also. If the current administration was serious about lowering oil consumption they would encourage (make) Ford, GM and others to provide the US consumer with the option of a high mileage diesel powered passenger car. A modification or delay of emissions standards would also be involved.
It seems to me I read not to long ago that the two most popular small sedans in Europe were the VW Jetta TDI and the Ford Fusion diesel.
#18 of 25
Re: Why no diesels in USA? [jkinzel] by tdinick
May 24, 2006 (6:18 pm)

Replying to: jkinzel (Apr 29, 2006 11:17 pm)

BMW and Honda diesels should be sold in the US in 2008. BMW last sold a diesel here in about 1986 and Honda never has but they do sell a few in Europe. VW is doing to get hurt when the Japanese diesels arrive!
#19 of 25
Re: Why no diesels in USA? [meyervilla] by nedzel
Jun 07, 2007 (9:42 am)

Replying to: meyervilla (Apr 29, 2006 9:45 pm)

Yes, something does stink. In particular, what stinks are 1) the current EPA air pollution regulations (and forthcoming more stringent regulations) and 2) regulations from the California Air Resources Board (CARB) that CA and four other states follow.
 
The diesels available in the EU (and much of the rest of the world) simply will not meet these ridiculously stringent regulations. VW and Mercedes will have 50-state legal vehicles that meet these regulations, starting in the 2008 model year. But to do so, they have had to add $1000 to the cost (including urea injection system for the exhaust).
 
Ford is working on a 4.4l diesel for the F150 and Honda is working on a 2.2-2.4l diesel for the Accord. BMW is also working on diesels for the US market.
 
So the diesels are coming, albeit slowly. And you can lay the blame firmly at the doorstep of the EPA, CARB, and the various enviro-wacko pressure groups that have been the force behind these regulations.
#20 of 25
Re: Why no diesels in USA? [nedzel] by tpe
Jun 07, 2007 (3:45 pm)

Replying to: nedzel (Jun 07, 2007 9:42 am)

I grew up in Los Angeles county during the 60's and early 70's. There were days that it was literally painful to take more than a half breath. Since I was a kid that had never lived anywhere else I assumed this was normal. Well I've now come to realize it's not normal and when I occasionally return to So. CA I'm very pleased to find that the air quality has improved significantly. Maybe this is in part due to these whackos that put a higher priority on breathing than gas mileage.
 
I very much want these new diesel technologies like BluTech to be able to meet emission standards. I'll be one of the first in line to buy one. But I am not willing to sacrifice air quality for higher mpg. I guess I'm a whacko.
#21 of 25
Re: Why no diesels in USA? [tpe] by gagrice
Jun 07, 2007 (3:55 pm)

Replying to: tpe (Jun 07, 2007 3:45 pm)

There is no reason to give up good air with the current diesel engined cars. They are as clean as a 3 year old Camry right today. Plus they emit a lot less CO2. There is a bias against diesel and I am not sure who supports it.
 
I was also raised in LA in the 40s and 50s. When I went back to visit my relatives in the 60s and 70s I could not breathe. It was not diesel. It was leaded gas. The VW & MB diesel cars using ULSD today are very clean. We need to look at industry and shipping for the current pollution in SO CAL.
 
PS
Diesel is the only way the automakers can get 35 MPG averages out of the cars and SUVs Americans want to drive.
#22 of 25
Re: Why no diesels in USA? [gagrice] by tpe
Jun 07, 2007 (4:36 pm)

Replying to: gagrice (Jun 07, 2007 3:55 pm)

If these new diesels are as clean as a 3 year old Camry then that's plenty clean enough. Modern vehicles are now so clean that the vast majority of pollution is being produced by a very small percentage of older vehicles still on the road. There's not much to be gained by making the clean vehicles cleaner. Of course I'm talking about particulate pollution, not CO2. Maybe there is a bias against diesels but I can't imagine what the motivation would be.
 
If diesel gains popularity in this country it will be interesting to see what happens to the price of diesel fuel. My understanding is that when you refine crude oil you get so much gasoline and so much distillate. This can be adjusted to some extent but I think there are limits. This is why we are able to import so much unleaded gasoline from Europe. Since they use a lot of diesel they are left with an excess of unleaded gasoline, which is essentially their byproduct of refining diesel.
#23 of 25
Re: Why no diesels in USA? [tpe] by gagrice
Jun 07, 2007 (4:52 pm)

Replying to: tpe (Jun 07, 2007 4:36 pm)

I think both your points could be the reason for the bias. There may not be a big enough percentage of diesel from a barrel of oil to add a big percentage of diesel vehicles. At one time long ago gasoline was a discarded byproduct in the refining process. Until someone figured out how to make it work in an engine.
 
You figure all the trucks, trains, planes, tractors and ships use some form of diesel distillate. May be the reason they are holding it back in spite of the advantages with mileage.
 
I know the EU has a gasoline surplus that we buy a lot of.
#24 of 25
Re: Why no diesels in USA? [tpe] by roland3
Jun 12, 2007 (4:24 am)

Replying to: tpe (Jun 07, 2007 3:45 pm)

... The main visible portion of smog is NOx. This has received the most attention from CARB and EPA; however at a huge cost in wasted fuel and increased GHG. Exhaust gas recirculation should be outlawed if you consider the big picture out the tailpipe. The regs forced measurement of each compound in say a cubic foot of exhaust gas but did not tell us it was taking thirty to forty percent more cubic feet of exhaust gas to move the vehicle the same distance.
... I believe air quality will follow efficiency and that CARB and EPA should offer incentives to the gas and Diesel engine manufacturers for economy.
#25 of 25
Re: Why no diesels in USA? [roland3] by tpe
Jun 12, 2007 (3:52 pm)

Replying to: roland3 (Jun 12, 2007 4:24 am)

... I believe air quality will follow efficiency and that CARB and EPA should offer incentives to the gas and Diesel engine manufacturers for economy.
 
I'm thinking that is the point of view that the general consensus will arrive at.

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