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Coupes & Convertibles Pontiac Solstice Pontiac Solstice vs 2006 Mazda MX-5 Miata
376 messages, Last post on Jan 17, 2008 at 3:20 PM
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Replying to: rorr (May 22, 2006 9:14 am) Very good decription of how economics in the car business works. Rebates are another way that help consumers when sales are slow, and help generate sales. |
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Replying to: rorr (May 22, 2006 9:14 am) If you read this carefully, I chose my words very carefully. I said that " I will never." I didn't say you should never. Basic economic theory would agree that if demand is high, supplies are low, price will be high. BUT, why should I be the chump who has to have the first car on the block (like the Miata, the original LS 400 or now the Sky. ) I can afford to wait for demand to lessen and the consequent prices to drop as well. Case in Point, the New Z0-6 in our area, dealers were asing $5,000 over sticker (for what, a car that you can get a sticker (MSRP) or less in a few months. In cold weather climes, its real easy to get a convertible or high-perf car in the winter at a reasonable price. I am simply making the point that I (me personally) will not get ripped by ADM. "So, should a dealer say that they'll never again sell to a customer who asks for LESS than MSRP?" Yeah , thats real smart and they'll be out of business real soon. Economics works on the supply and the DEmAND side as well. Are you a car dealer or in the field??? |
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Replying to: glennglenn (May 23, 2006 11:41 am) "I said that " I will never." I didn't say you should never." Um, yes. You are correct. You never advised me (or anyone else) to never pay ADM. Likewise, I never advised YOU to go ahead and pay ADM. All I'm (trying) to point out is getting all worked up about ADM is pointless. You have a policy about not paying ADM? Fine. Then don't pay it. But why should you hold a grudge against a manufacturer because their dealers charge (and apparently get) ADM on cars in demand? You've held a grudge against Mazda for SIXTEEN YEARS (see how that works?) because their dealers were charging ADM on Miatas in 1990? So, Corvette ZO6's have ADM's? Are you going to scratch GM off your list forever? As was pointed out, many dealers had ADM's on Odyssey's and S2000's (even Civic Si) when they were hot. How come you haven't scratched Honda off of your buy list forever? You show me a car manufacturer who has never had dealers charge ADM, and I'll show you a mediocre manufacturer. No one is forcing you (or anyone) to pay ADM. They are simply a mechanism by which a dealer can adjust his asking price to reflect market conditions. Personally, I don't give a damn if a Mazda dealer has a $100k ADM on a Miata (or a Pontiac dealer on a Solstice). IF THAT'S THE MARKET, he can sell HIS cars for whatever he damn well wants. He has absolutely NO obligation to sell me, or you, a car at MSRP if he has buyers willing to pay MSRP+ADM. He has no obligation to sell me or you a car AT ANY PRICE. "Yeah , thats real smart and they'll be out of business real soon." Of course they would. That's because car dealers UNDERSTAND that selling prices are dictated by the demand for the car and the supply for the car. Which means that when supply exceeds demand, the price must come down. What you (apparently) fail to acknowledge is the inverse of this law: when the demand exceeds supply, the price must go up. Apparently, you believe that this law only works in one direction. "Are you a car dealer or in the field???" Nope. Civil Engineer specializing in drainage/floodplain analysis. Are you our resident Don Quixote?
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Replying to: glennglenn (May 23, 2006 11:41 am) I am seeing the same as well. However, it's tough to get a Z0-6. I have a buddy at the Chevy dealer next to me, and the have discounted the regular vette, but, not the Z0-6. They have gotten over sticker, or sticker at the least. I live in New England, and even in the winter, they sell for sticker or more. That Chevy dealer is tied into a Saturn dealer next door, and they have a $3000 ADM on the Sky. Our MX-5's are now selling at sticker, because supply is low. Most dealers are low in stock, if they have any at all. Most MX-5's right now are on dealer order.
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Replying to: aviboy97 (May 23, 2006 1:15 pm) Mazda dealers have one hurdle Saturn do not: 16 years of decent second hand stock out there to compete with the new product. I imagine othewise the new MX-5s would be over list as well. I think both you and Rorr have made very good points above. The one thing I would add is that Saturn dealers charging over list goes against the no dicker sticker model they have been conditioning the market to accept for the last decade. That said, GM has not done very well by the Saturn dealers. Until the SKY, the VUE was the only bright side in the Saturn line since 1995, (the last year for the first model S Series). It is hard to blame Saturn dealers for riding a hot market for a change. |
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Replying to: rorr (May 23, 2006 1:04 pm) |
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...GM has sold 7,896 Solstices so far this year, compared with 6,073 Miatas sold, according to data from automotive research firm Edmunds.com. And I have read that Mazda sells about 18,000 MX-5s a year in the U.S. So looks like the Solstice is appealing to yet another market demographic...
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Replying to: manybmws (May 24, 2006 3:14 am) I do not quite follow. The MX-5 is the name for the new generation Miata. It has not been on the market for a year. If your numbers are right, it appears the MX-5 is in line for about 12k sales this year. I think last year Mazda sold around 15k or so. It has sold in the 18k per anum range in the past. The Miata and Solstice are both Roadsters. I have had two Miatas, and definitely like the car. The styling has never been quite my cup of tea. I also found its driving characteristics a little challenging on longer drives. The Solstice and Sky take a slightly different approach to the Roadster. Meaning the Roadster buyer has a choice, depending on taste and driving preference. I don't think that means another demographic, however. Just different ranges in the same Roadster demographic. I would put the S2000 in the MX-5 Kappa demographic as well. The Boxter, Z4 and Corvette group are a completely different bunch.
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Replying to: logic1 (May 24, 2006 5:24 am) Keep in mind we are now in peak selling season for convertibles. I'm sure sales will increase. As of end of April 2006, Mazda has a 152% increase in MX-5 sales over last year (6,129 to 2,436). It's almost certain the Solstice will out sell the MX-5 this year, but, I think more Solstices are available in the US market then the NA MX-5. I will agree with your point that the MX-5 and Solstice have the same demographic's, the S2000 as well. The previous poster said that the Solstice and MX-5 are not the same demographic. I believe he said "the Solstice is creating a new demographic" something of that nature. I think he better look at what "demographic's" means.
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Replying to: aviboy97 (May 24, 2006 8:09 am) Yeah, I imagine there will be some brisk sales reports from May and going into June. No question the MX-5 will outsell the last year NB Miata. Roadster buyers in general and Mazda particularly are a very wired bunch. Everyone knew that the MX-5 was going to have a lot more to offer be offered for not a whole lot more money than the NB. Didn't help you guys last year, but the people lining up for the MX5 can't hurt now. And to repeat, the MX-5, Kappa Twins and the S2000 are variations on a theme.
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