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Coupes & Convertibles Pontiac Solstice Pontiac Solstice vs 2006 Mazda MX-5 Miata
376 messages, Last post on Jan 17, 2008 at 3:20 PM
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Replying to: glennglenn (May 17, 2006 6:52 pm) Perhaps you don't know what MSRP stands for? Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price. Why is the price 'gouging'? Was anyone holding a gun to your head MAKING you buy a Miata 16 years ago? I don't think Pontiac dealers are kidnapping folks off the street and threatening to break their legs if they don't buy a Solstice at MSRP+ADM. If you don't like the price, don't buy the car. It's that simple. If someone has a large amount of green in their pocket and simply HAS to have a Solstice (or Sky or Mustang GT convertible or whatever the latest 'hot' car is), why shouldn't the Dealer charge MSRP+ADM for the car? Which is better: having a dealer WITH some inventory actually available but at MSRP+ADM, OR having a dealer who ONLY sells at MSRP (or below) but has no inventory? And a 6 month waiting list of folks wanting whatever the hot car is? There's no right or wrong answer to that question. You are certainly within your right to ONLY buy from dealers selling at MSRP or below......and get on a waiting list. Doesn't anyone know the basic BASIC rules of supply and demand anymore?
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Replying to: logic1 (May 18, 2006 8:06 am) I do think the MX-5 and the Sky must be taking some sales because the Solstice's numbers are trending downward slightly even as we hit prime roadster weather. The May number should be an interesting barometer. Solstice Sales 1/06 1990 2/06 1859 3/06 2219 4/06 1828
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Replying to: midwesttrader (May 18, 2006 12:18 pm) For GM, that is not an issue, however. |
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To be honest, I am probably an atypical driver: I am commuting daily using a cheap 25c-a-trip bus line. But I am now enjoying driving top down during the week-end. Discovered lots of fun mountain roads and the joy of cruising along the ocean with the wind in my hairs and the 7 loudspeaker stereo ambiance. My MX5 is Nordic Green with Tan top (GT) and I keep being struck by its elegance and finesse every time I step out of it to check a view point. I am slowly getting in love (I mean, obsessed) with this car ! The truth is, I have always enjoyed it a lot, but after I bought it, I had some thoughts about my decision process. You see, I wanted to test drive the Solstice (I had got both the Solstice and the MX5 glossy paper brochures, and gosh, did they look nice !). But my local dealers had none in stock and the waiting time was 4 months. The only way to test drive one was to pre-order one, and get a chance to say no thanks at the day of delivery... So I passed this opportunity and bought my dream MX5 without comparing it to any other new convertible. Then I started reading the forums and reviews. I guess I had some hidden remorse. Strangely, the technical comparisons seemed to be in favor of the MX5 (which I was glad to see, because I sure did not want to have my car fall apart any time soon), but users (or dreamers) of the Solstice were extatic about their cars, so I conceived some doubts... Yes, it does not have any trunk space, the top mechanism is weird and it may be a bit heavier and so on, but did I make the wrong move? I have actually found a few occasions were I filled my MX5 trunk, and yes it really fits a lot of things (at least plenty enough for me). And do I love the easy way the top can be put up or down with a single arm motion ! And that car sticks to the road, which is great for the kind of mediocre driver that I still am... So I started analyzing the Solstice, trying to feel something for the car, and suddenly, met one while I was driving my MX5 back home. What I was surprised about was that I almost missed it! I had been so intoxicated by the claim of this outstanding car, that I had to turn my head and look at it while it was moving away to recognize the characteristic bumps of its trunk to confirm the ID... Then this morning, while sitting in my bus (I know that ruins my credibility as a macho guy, but I must confess it's getting harder to get to the bus stop and wait for it morning and evening - I am probably going to get myself a parking permit for my job place), I saw it again, parked along a sidewalk, black and not mysterious at all. In fact, a bit fat, somewhat in between a Porsche and a Z350. I have thus come to the conclusion that its design does not fit my taste, which is strictly a personal opinion, but totally demystified the impression I had got from my online reading. And to be honest, I had never been too excited about the Mercedes-or S-type Jaguar kind of fender grid the Solstice has. Bottom line, my doubts have vanished, and I don't regret not having tested the Solstice before buying my MX5. They appeal to different tastes, and are not really comparable. The truth is, my MX5 truly looks like a mini Jaguar XK pre-2006, which was for a while my dream car. But now that I own a MX5, those look a little to big, and pretty useless (for me) with their 4 seats. Plus, it costs a third of the price (but doesn't have ebony parts in it  My 2 cts.
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Replying to: rorr (May 18, 2006 11:08 am) Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price. Why is the price 'gouging'? Was anyone holding a gun to your head MAKING you buy a Miata 16 years ago? Yep, that's why I didn't buy one and to this day will NOT buy one. Spent my money on a Supra Turbo and then another. I will never ever again buy from any dealer who asks the ADM (bump sticker). In my opinion, dealers who do this are gouging due to demand. I certainly understand economics, BUT dealers are NOW scratching their a**es because 1. Consumers are MORE educated 2. The internet allows ME to shop 20 or more dealers 3. Cars are more reliable than ever before (less service = less dealer profit for the service center) 4. There is less mark-up on new cars than there used to be (they still get their spliffs and holdback). I am not against profit, it is not a bad word. I am against taking advantage of a "demand" when for sure, that demand will "die down" and a newer and better edition will be out the following year or two. I can afford to wait( and also not pay the ADM) IN the 16 years that have passed since I did NOT buy that MX-5 chicks car, I have purchased at least 10 cars and never once did I (or will I) look at a Mazda. Sorry Mazda, you (or your dealers) blew it. 
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Replying to: glennglenn (May 20, 2006 6:20 pm) Well, every manufacturer misses out on sales every now and again because of dealer mishaps or quality issues. Look at the Big 3, how many customers have they lost to foreign competition. I don't think that is even a countable number. Also, Mazda is not for everyone, including you. I'm sure you are happy with whatever you chose, just as there are almost 1 million happy MX-5 owners over the past 16 years. |
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Replying to: glennglenn (May 20, 2006 6:20 pm) So, should a dealer say that they'll never again sell to a customer who asks for LESS than MSRP? "In my opinion, dealers who do this are gouging due to demand." Dealers could say that customers who ask for less than MSRP are 'gouging' due to demand (lack of demand). Why is it OK for customers to ask for way way less than MSRP when supply outstrips demand, yet it is NOT OK for dealers to ask for more than MSRP when demand outstrips supply? Are you sure you understand economics? All transactions on the open market must be acceptable to both parties. If a seller has a product for sale and no takers, he must lower his price until he has demand for his product. If the demand for his product is more than he can supply, he can either make more product (increase supply) or raise the price to bring the demand down to meet the supply. If he DOESN'T raise his price so that his supply equals his demand, there will be shortages (no product). If you don't like ADM, fine; don't pay it. When supply catches up to demand, the price will fall, the ADM will disappear, and then you can purchase. But the 'shocking news' is that EVERY SINGLE manufacturer who puts out a hot car WILL HAVE initial problems meeting demand. And while they can't meet demand, some dealers WILL ask for (and get) the ADM. I see from your profile that you have a Honda. Are you aware that many Honda dealers charged ADM's on Odyssey's when they first came out? On the S2000 as well? Would you acuse Honda of 'blowing it' if their dealers charged ADM on hot cars? |
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Replying to: rorr (May 22, 2006 9:14 am) Very good decription of how economics in the car business works. Rebates are another way that help consumers when sales are slow, and help generate sales. |
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Replying to: rorr (May 22, 2006 9:14 am) If you read this carefully, I chose my words very carefully. I said that " I will never." I didn't say you should never. Basic economic theory would agree that if demand is high, supplies are low, price will be high. BUT, why should I be the chump who has to have the first car on the block (like the Miata, the original LS 400 or now the Sky. ) I can afford to wait for demand to lessen and the consequent prices to drop as well. Case in Point, the New Z0-6 in our area, dealers were asing $5,000 over sticker (for what, a car that you can get a sticker (MSRP) or less in a few months. In cold weather climes, its real easy to get a convertible or high-perf car in the winter at a reasonable price. I am simply making the point that I (me personally) will not get ripped by ADM. "So, should a dealer say that they'll never again sell to a customer who asks for LESS than MSRP?" Yeah , thats real smart and they'll be out of business real soon. Economics works on the supply and the DEmAND side as well. Are you a car dealer or in the field??? |
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Replying to: glennglenn (May 23, 2006 11:41 am) "I said that " I will never." I didn't say you should never." Um, yes. You are correct. You never advised me (or anyone else) to never pay ADM. Likewise, I never advised YOU to go ahead and pay ADM. All I'm (trying) to point out is getting all worked up about ADM is pointless. You have a policy about not paying ADM? Fine. Then don't pay it. But why should you hold a grudge against a manufacturer because their dealers charge (and apparently get) ADM on cars in demand? You've held a grudge against Mazda for SIXTEEN YEARS (see how that works?) because their dealers were charging ADM on Miatas in 1990? So, Corvette ZO6's have ADM's? Are you going to scratch GM off your list forever? As was pointed out, many dealers had ADM's on Odyssey's and S2000's (even Civic Si) when they were hot. How come you haven't scratched Honda off of your buy list forever? You show me a car manufacturer who has never had dealers charge ADM, and I'll show you a mediocre manufacturer. No one is forcing you (or anyone) to pay ADM. They are simply a mechanism by which a dealer can adjust his asking price to reflect market conditions. Personally, I don't give a damn if a Mazda dealer has a $100k ADM on a Miata (or a Pontiac dealer on a Solstice). IF THAT'S THE MARKET, he can sell HIS cars for whatever he damn well wants. He has absolutely NO obligation to sell me, or you, a car at MSRP if he has buyers willing to pay MSRP+ADM. He has no obligation to sell me or you a car AT ANY PRICE. "Yeah , thats real smart and they'll be out of business real soon." Of course they would. That's because car dealers UNDERSTAND that selling prices are dictated by the demand for the car and the supply for the car. Which means that when supply exceeds demand, the price must come down. What you (apparently) fail to acknowledge is the inverse of this law: when the demand exceeds supply, the price must go up. Apparently, you believe that this law only works in one direction. "Are you a car dealer or in the field???" Nope. Civil Engineer specializing in drainage/floodplain analysis. Are you our resident Don Quixote?
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