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Coupes & Convertibles Pontiac Solstice Pontiac Solstice vs 2006 Mazda MX-5 Miata
376 messages, Last post on Jan 17, 2008 at 3:20 PM
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Replying to: logic1 (Feb 01, 2006 11:38 am) Certainly possible. I'm curious; do you think they would do a Mazdaspeed version in response to the NA Solstice (that would be 'normally aspirated'  ) or in response to the GXP version? Personally, I don't think Mazda would do a Mazdaspeed version (soon) in response to the standard Solstice. The two cars are close enough in price/performance that they won't feel a lot of pressure to do a Mspeed quickly. Throwing the GXP into the mix is interesting because the decision to do a Mazdaspeed MX-5 may hinge on the selling price of the GXP. If the market price for the GXP is $30k+, then the GXP would be up against the S2000 rather than the Miata and Mazda wouldn't feel as much heat to put out a Mazdaspeed version quickly. However, if a GXP is on the market for around $25k, then I can see Mazda thinking about getting one out earlier. Given the current market on the base Solstice, I think it would be awhile before the market on GXP versions are around $25k. Which is one reason why I think it'll be awhile before Mazda does another Mazdaspeed MX-5. |
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Replying to: rorr (Feb 01, 2006 3:15 pm)  ]or in response to the GXP version? Definitely GXP. The Solstice and Miata are close. What I like about the two cars now is tests show Mazda and GM have the same general idea, with subtle iterations. The Mazda is lighter, and enjoys some performance advantages accordingly. The tradeoff is a more nervous delivery (I'll acknowledge many want this) The Solstice is more planted, and also a bit more torquey. The GXP will bring a different angle to the competition. I think Mazda will want to respond. I could see a fully loaded GXP approaching 30k. I think you will be able to get one reasonably equipped closer to $27k or so. Guess we shall see later this year.
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Replying to: logic1 (Feb 02, 2006 1:45 pm) Would a GXP Solstice necessarily compete with the Miata or would it be more in the S2000 market (or even convertible Mustang). Could Pontiac bring it to market for $27k? I'm sure they could; but I see demand for this car making the actual market price closer to $30k (at least for a year or so). "I think you will be able to get one reasonably equipped closer to $27k or so." And rumor has it you can get a reasonably equipped base Solstice for around $22k. Anybody seen any for sale lately at that price? A different look at it: what the GXP will bring to the table is a lot more shear grunt and power than the standard Solstice. Improvements to the Solstice handling would be (IMO) very incremental. How does this appeal to the type of owner interested in a Miata? Typical Miata shoppers aren't interested in pure power as much as they are reflexes and balance. This, in addition to the large price delta compared to the Miata, is one reason why I don't see a GXP Solstice stealing that many sales from the Miata, forcing Mazda to do a Mspeed version. And if a potential Miata owner desires even BETTER handling, there are already suspension/brake parts available through Mazdaspeed for the NC MX-5; they don't have to do a dedicated Mspeed version to satisfy this demand.
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Considering the 2004-2005 Mazdaspeed MX-5 was $27,125 fully loaded (Bose audio, 6-speed manual, leather trim,1.8L turbo) It is conceiveable that the next gen Mazdaspeed MX-5, if there will be one, will stay near that price, maybe just slightly more. In another note, it's still way to early to tell what GM or Mazda will do in response to each other, although GM has announced the GXP. If Mazda does have a response to the GXP, it's still on the drawing board. Mazdaspeed has their hands full with developing the Mazdaspeed3. The thing about Mazdaspeed, is that they are like a company within a company. In addition to developing a production Mazda into a tuned Mazdaspeed product, they also are developing a full line of performance products for the Mazda line. They have a catalog of performance parts for the Mazda3, Mazda6, RX-8, MX-5. I would say they have a lot on their plate. |
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Replying to: rorr (Feb 02, 2006 2:21 pm) The GXP is a fairly tidy package, The 2.0 is not a heavy engine. The result is 85 more ponies but only 100 pounds additional weight and not much change to the front and rear balance. The Saab engineers did a pretty good job tuning the engine. The 2.0 conducts itself in a civil manner and will return decent gas mileage if the driver cares. (presumably the average GXP driver will not work to massage mpgs out of the 2.0 as conscientiously as a Saab driver). On the other hand, I don't think Mazda would have to do all that much to come up with a competitive MSpeed MX-5. The possible buff mag coupe alone would seem to make it a worthwhile effort to me. On price, I agree it will probably be difficult to get a GXP at list any time soon after launch. (n.b.: I talked to a local Pontiac dealer about getting a Mallet Solstice. He quoted some $10k over what Mallet is saying they want for it.) My hope is that the Sky, what with Saturn's no dicker sticker, will bring some common sense to Solstice pricing. Unless one is really smitten with the Solstice's Italianate curves, the better interior and better dealer experience with its Saturn twin should force Pontiac dealers to reconsider their mark ups. Saturn competition may not help all that much with GXP pricing, however. A Sky Redline probably will approach $30k, given the higher base cost for the Sky over the Solstice. |
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Replying to: rorr (Feb 02, 2006 2:21 pm) Excellent point...the 'typical' Miata buyer is a well established older buyer who wants a reliable weekend roadster that is fun to drive...not much more. My 64 year old mother is a great example...she is on her second Miata and it's all about the basics of the car not the latest and greatest technologies or being the fastest. We sell alot more Miata to folks who are like my mom than people who are hard core enthusiasts |
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I think what you're saying is this: Solstice and Miata and natural competitors. Therefore, if Pontiac drastically ups the performance of the Solstice with the GXP, then Mazda must respond with a Mazdaspeed MX-5. What I'm saying is that competition is dictated as much by price as vehicle dynamics. If the GXP (or Sky Redline) is a $28-30k convertible, it will compete with other $30k convertibles. How WELL it would do this might be an interesting discussion for another day. My point is that the Miata is NOT a $30k convertible and (IMO) I don't think Mazda wants to compete in that market. Is it possible they will lose SOME sales of a $23k MX-5 to a $28k GXP? Sure; but I don't think the number of sales lost would warrant a panicked release of a Mazdaspeed MX-5. Just a difference of opinion - no way to know for sure for a couple of years but it does lead to interesting questions. What I'd like to know would be the response of Honda with their S2000 to a well balanced, powerful Solstice GXP.
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Replying to: rorr (Feb 03, 2006 7:21 am) I think it is fair to say we are looking at the same issue through somewhat different perspectives. You are looking from more of a pure consumer/business perspective. I am looking from the buff mag perspecitve (where they tend to ignore price, though not always). We shall have to see which perspective Mazda takes. What I'd like to know would be the response of Honda with their S2000 to a well balanced, powerful Solstice GXP. Interesting thought. While Mazda certainly has not sat on its hands, Honda has been fairly content to leave the S2000 with only modest changes. Wonder what the GXP will do to this strategy?
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Replying to: logic1 (Feb 03, 2006 8:14 am) Yep. But look at it this way: for years Mazda essentially had the affordable roadster market to itself. And then Honda released the S2000, which (while still fairly affordable) offered substantially better performance for somewhat more money. So, look at history. Did Mazda release the Mazdaspeed Miata in response to perceived lost sales to the S2000? I don't know the answer to that (not being in on the development meetings when the decision was made to build a Mazdaspeed Miata). However, I'll point out that the S2000 was out for a few years before Mazda released the Speed version. You can draw your own conclusions. Granted, the Miata and S2000 were somewhat further apart pricewise than the current Miata and proposed GXP. But (and this is my opinion), I think the price spread will still be substantial enough to move the GXP out of the base Miata market and more into the S2000 market. And even buff mags, when they do vehicle comparisons, at least TRY to match up vehicles at similar price points with similar capabilities. Based on that, I think that folks like C&D will match up the GXP against the S2000. I would think the Pontiac fans would welcome this matchup.
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Replying to: rorr (Feb 03, 2006 8:49 am) But to stay with the Buff magazine angle, as the S2000, Z4, SLK were coming out, you frequently saw editorial comments on the one hand praising Mazda for keeping the Miata inexpensive but on the other asking for more horsepower. And even buff mags, when they do vehicle comparisons, at least TRY to match up vehicles at similar price points with similar capabilities. Based on that, I think that folks like C&D will match up the GXP against the S2000. I would think the Pontiac fans would welcome this matchup. An S2000 and GXP comparo is almost inevitable. But it is not unreasonable to expect a comparo asking when Mazda is going to join the fight as well.
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