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Coupes & Convertibles Pontiac Solstice Pontiac Solstice vs 2006 Mazda MX-5 Miata
376 messages, Last post on Jan 17, 2008 at 3:20 PM
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Replying to: aviboy97 (Jan 31, 2006 8:40 am) Tuning a Pontiac is a waste of money, for the car will fall apart from what you do to it. Unless it's a 60's Firebird, or a GTO. The Mazda MX-5 is a PROVEN vehicle, and has PROVEN it can handle many mods and stay reliable. I have never seen that with Pontiac. Pretty weak argument. The Miata has a circuit some 15 years into its run. There already are multiple mods available for the Kappa cars. Where it took Mazda some 12 years before it figured out how to do a MazdaSpeed version of the Miata, Pontiac has a GXP ready in less than one year. Tuning a Pontiac is a waste of money, for the car will fall apart from what you do to it. Unless it's a 60's Firebird, or a GTO. Yeah. And the only Mazdas anyone tunes is the Miata.
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Replying to: logic1 (Jan 31, 2006 11:01 am)
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Replying to: logic1 (Jan 31, 2006 11:01 am) Weak?....WEAK?...I don't hear your dissagreeing with me? You can't POSSIBLY sit there and say "gee, my Pontiac is such a reliable, well built automobile" One thing I will say positive about the Solstice, it is a nice car, and I am VERY happy an American manufacturer has built a competitive roadster. Where it took Mazda some 12 years before it figured out how to do a MazdaSpeed version of the Miata, Pontiac has a GXP ready in less than one year. This next statement show how much you don't know about Mazda. Mazdaspeed has had race products in the Mazda MX-5 for quite some time, on the race track. There was no need for a Mazdaspeed MX-5 before 2004. Mazda has had the market cornered in this segment for 15 years. They gave the MX-5 the Mazdaspeed treatment to add performance, as well as test the market for a more performance driven vehicle in that segment. Now, GM is doing the GXP to try and build sales, as well as reputation. Mazda does not need to build anything. As I've stated before, the MX-5 is a PROVEN vehicle in it's segment. I would like to see evidence to dispute that. Do you have any? Yeah. And the only Mazdas anyone tunes is the Miata Oh boy, PLEASE do some homework before you speak.....Check out TRI-POINT Motorsports. You won't find those tuned Mazda's to have the MX-5 name on them. Also, have you ever heard of the 13b Rotary? Are you even aware that Mazda is the ONLY Japanese manufacturer to win at the 24 hr LeMans? And they did it with a Rotary!! Have you ever heard of the RX-7? One of the most popular, and saught out Jap. cars of the last 25 years! Now, Mazda has the RX-8. IT may not have the reputation of the RX-7, but, when they are purchased, many of them are tuned, and some are raced. Now, as to "tuning" Pontiac's, I see 60's or 70's tuned at car shows. I don't see anything made in the last 20 years with ANY respect other then a Firebird. You can't possilby give credit to a kid tuning a Pontiac Sunfire, or Sunbird. So, if you are going to make that arguement, please bring something more then what you said, PLEASE!
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Replying to: cargeek1 (Jan 31, 2006 11:40 am) I imagine people were tuning Pontiacs in the 1940s and 1950s, before there even was a Mazda on these shores. |
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Replying to: aviboy97 (Jan 31, 2006 12:15 pm) Pontiac's history has nothing to do with the Kappa platform or the ecotec engine. This next statement show how much you don't know about Mazda. Mazdaspeed has had race products in the Mazda MX-5 for quite some time, on the race track. There was no need for a Mazdaspeed MX-5 before 2004. Mazda has had the market cornered in this segment for 15 years. They gave the MX-5 the Mazdaspeed treatment to add performance, as well as test the market for a more performance driven vehicle in that segment If Mazda did not need it before, why does Mazda need it now? Now, GM is doing the GXP to try and build sales, as well as reputation. Mazda does not need to build anything. As I've stated before, the MX-5 is a PROVEN vehicle in it's segment. I would like to see evidence to dispute that. Do you have any? Again, it is a weak argument. Yes. The Solstice is a new car. If the best you can say about the Miata is the obvious statement that it has been around longer, you are not saying much. Are you even aware that Mazda is the ONLY Japanese manufacturer to win at the 24 hr LeMans? And they did it with a Rotary!! My definition of tuning is amateurs doing something in their garage. Not pro-race teams. Have you ever heard of the RX-7? One of the most popular, and saught out Jap. cars of the last 25 years! Now, Mazda has the RX-8. IT may not have the reputation of the RX-7, but, when they are purchased, many of them are tuned, and some are raced. In straight form, the RXs were somewhat popular. Maybe it is me, but they never seemed to be that big on the tuning market. The rotary engine has some very loyal fans. Otherwise it is pretty much despised. You can't possilby give credit to a kid tuning a Pontiac Sunfire, or Sunbird. So, if you are going to make that arguement, please bring something more then what you said Do not appreciate your putting words in my mouth. Another form of weak argument. I have never once made a positive comment about the performance dynamic of front wheel drive cars.
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Replying to: logic1 (Jan 31, 2006 12:24 pm) If Mazda did not need it before, why does Mazda need it now? I never said they needed it. Stop putting words in MY mouth. Since cars are always evolving, for manufacturers to stay competitive, they must evolve as well. All I see is evolution from Mazda. They know what they need to do to stay the leader of the segment of which they themselves resurrected. How is my statement of PROVEN success and PROVEN reliability weak? OR how about proven on the race track? I don't understand how that is weak? My definition of tuning is amateurs doing something in their garage. Not pro-race teams You said no one tunes Mazda's except for Miata's. You were wrong. In straight form, the RXs were somewhat popular. Maybe it is me, but they never seemed to be that big on the tuning market. The rotary engine has some very loyal fans. Otherwise it is pretty much despised. My best friend has a tuned 1994 RX-7, which he did in his garage, not professional. It has over 400hp. Maybe one reason you don't hear a whole lot about them is because there are not too many affordable and available. They are not like a Mustang, or a Camaro, which are everywhere and inexpensive. Plus, the rotary engine DOES scare people because they don't know how to work on it. Do not appreciate your putting words in my mouth. Another form of weak argument. I have never once made a positive comment about the performance dynamic of front wheel drive cars. I never put words in your mouth. I was stating that you can't argue that Pontiac has more "tuner" cars by stating the only tuned car is the Miata. I was giving my example of how it can be reversed on Pontiac. There are currently more "tuned" current production Mazda's then current production Pontiac's. From what I've seen and read. If I am wrong, then I wont have a problem being corrected. |
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Replying to: aviboy97 (Jan 31, 2006 1:05 pm) Well, now you taking words out of my mouth. I said they needed it. Mazda would not have spent all the money it did on the Mazdaspeed Miata if it was not losing sales and noticing the competition. How is my statement of PROVEN success and PROVEN reliability weak? OR how about proven on the race track? I don't understand how that is weak? Again, you are taking an obvious: the Kappa car is new - and saying that is an issue. Of course the Kappa car is new. GM certainly has many years of racing history to its credit. The Kappa platform itself has obvious similarities to the Vette platform. Clearly GM race engineers were involved. You said no one tunes Mazda's except for Miata's. You were wrong. I was using editorial license. There may be some Mazda tuning outside of the Miata. Not a whole lot. My best friend has a tuned 1994 RX-7, which he did in his garage, not professional. It has over 400hp. Maybe one reason you don't hear a whole lot about them is because there are not too many affordable and available. They are not like a Mustang, or a Camaro, which are everywhere and inexpensive. Plus, the rotary engine DOES scare people because they don't know how to work on it. Exactly. The Rotary engines are expensive to tune and maintain. A very small subset of tuners go rotary. An underlying principle behind tuning is that you do not have to be rich or a genius to tune. The rotary does not conform all that well. I never put words in your mouth. I was stating that you can't argue that Pontiac has more "tuner" cars by stating the only tuned car is the Miata. I was giving my example of how it can be reversed on Pontiac. There are currently more "tuned" current production Mazda's then current production Pontiac's. My comment that started this debate specifically concerned the passion the Solstice engendered in people. Not the Grand Am. Not the G6. Not even the GTO. But the Solstice. And the facts are that the Solstice is engendering passion. There are waiting lists to buy the cars. There are multiple Solstice forums already. (Indeed, to use a tactic from your playbook, it took several years before web sites were devoted to the Miata after its launch.) There are already tuner Solstice products available. And the Solstice will have a GXP varient in the Fall. That spells passion to me. The Miata on the other hand has declining sales. We shall see how the NC does. The NB ration is not nearly so popular as the NA was. If you look at the Miata tuner forums, you will note that a healthy number of the loyal are loyal to NA ation only
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Replying to: logic1 (Jan 31, 2006 12:24 pm) You stated that in an earlier post. You also said that the MX-5 is "Blah". You are entitled to your opinion, which I do not have a problem with. Every reputable car periodical has stated after driving both head to head, the MX-5 is better. There was one, C&D i think, that said the Solstice was better, but, 2 months later, in a follow up article, they recanted on that and said the MX-5 was better, for the Solstice started to rattle, and did not drive as well once it had miles on it. I'm not trying to bash the Solstice. But, it seems GM put this car together a little too fast. It's a "GM parts bin" car. Tranny from the Chevy Colorado (a pick-up I mind you) Fog lights from the Grand AM and HVAC from a Hummer. I must say, I am surprised that GM actually used modern technology in the new GXP. Direct Injection, turbo...very pleased to see that. But, will it hold up? The ecotec is known for rattles, unnessesary valve noise. We will have to wait and see. |
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Replying to: logic1 (Jan 31, 2006 1:22 pm) What competition was there in 2004 for the Miata? S2000 too much money, and really a competitor to the RX-8. VW Beetle? please....BMW Z4? that is a lux car...Miata is not. One thing about these Miata's is that people don't get rid of them. They keep on running, so, people are not getting a new one every 4 years. I'm willing to bet anything that the Solstice will fade, and fail at the attempt to dethrone the MX-5. Also, if anything, the Solstice has sparked more interest in the MX-5. By creating an American roadster, it forces ones who have never looked at a Miata before to start looking. The new MX-5 sales have been overwhelming. I can say this with proof in hand.
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Replying to: aviboy97 (Jan 31, 2006 1:28 pm) The ecotec in the Solstice is used in many other GM cars. There is a large market for ecotec tuning products. Frame tuning products will have to build with Kappa sales. GM plans to make several cars off the Kappa platform, meaing there should be enough demand to encourage many aftermarket suppliers to jump in the fray. There was one, C&D i think, that said the Solstice was better, but, 2 months later, in a follow up article, they recanted on that and said the MX-5 was better, for the Solstice started to rattle, and did not drive as well once it had miles on it. I've read the articles. I do not recall C&D saying anything about having a long term Solstice. Tranny from the Chevy Colorado (a pick-up I mind you) An Aisin transimission -- same company that makes the MX-5 Miata transmision. Fog lights from the Grand AM and HVAC from a Hummer. Uncertain how either of these are a problem. The ecotec is known for rattles, unnessesary valve noise. We will have to wait and see. Ecotec has been a good engine for GM around the world and popular with tuners. |
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