Last post on Jan 15, 2008 at 9:21 AM
You are in the Honda Civic
What is this discussion about?
Honda Civic, Scion tC, Coupe
#96 of 186 Integra Manual dvr had shifting pblms n ScionTC test drive:PLS HELP STAT:-)
Jan 06, 2007 (7:03 pm)
I am a female, interested in purchasing a 2007 Scion TC Manual Trans. My present car is a 1991 ACURA Integra LS, Manual, 225K, w/the original factory-installed clutch. I am trying to find a model with an Integraís handling, reliability, and ability to go the distance, considering my price range (18K). I thought a new Scion TC would be a better investment and more worry-free than a used car, considering my traveling distances and safety needs.
I went for a test drive, & was surprised by the TC's difficulties I had shifting (ie. getting into gear), partic. downshifting in an emergency stop. The 2nd issue was merging into traffic due to the obstructed left window view (do drivers no longer worry about blind spots?).
I think I know how to drive a manual, considering the age of my clutch. I heard there is a big transition in going from a Honda to a Toyota manual. Therefore I do not know if my difficulties driving the Scion were due to this transition/myself, or due to the Scionís transmission design.
From the posts it sounded as though it was easy to burn through clutches during the break-in prd. Should I worry about that? Can someone answer these questions, and provide the correct way to drive a Toyota manual and how to avoid damaging the engine via revving as well as the clutch due to the learning curve?
I am certain there is someone out there who can get me on the right foot with the Scion. I would hate to cross her off the list bc I drove her incorrectly.
Tx so much for your help!
#97 of 186 Re: Integra Manual dvr had shifting pblms n ScionTC test drive:PLS HELP STA
Jan 06, 2007 (9:00 pm)
The driver-side blind spot isn't a problem -- the driver's window is all you need to get a clear view of the blind spot, assuming I guess that you don't sit too far back (incidentally, the side-view mirrors in any car should be adjusted so that you can just barely see (the edge of) your car). (The driver's side rear window is much too small to be of any use for checking the blind spot, but in the average user's case this rear window would be completely unnecessary).
If it was a real emergency, why would you bother downshifting? Why not apply the brakes and then apply the clutch when the engine gets down to 1000 rpm?
The tC has been my first manual transmission and I'm generally satisfied with the shifting.
#98 of 186 Re: Integra Manual dvr had shifting pblms n ScionTC test drive:PLS HELP STA
Jan 07, 2007 (1:06 pm)
Glad you found the dedicated Scion tC discussion - that's the best place to have this conversation. Here's a link for anyone who can help: nifab, "Scion tC" #1786, 6 Jan 2007 7:27 pm
#99 of 186 Re: Integra Manual dvr had shifting pblms n ScionTC test drive:PLS HELP STA [thinker_]
Jan 07, 2007 (5:06 pm)
I do apply the brakes, then downshift, but it's the downshifting that pulls me back. I am in a 1991 Integra, no ABS, vtec engine, airbags..and ofcourse coffee holder (what I want most). I am petite so I have to move the seat all the way up so I can reach the clutch, which chg the window perspective. I use my rear window for parrallel parking (full view in an Integra). I use my left window (ie. look back myself to see road as taught in driver's ed.) to confirm I can pass or merge into traffic. The entire left view is obstructed in a TC, as reported by Edmunds. 2 POINTS: I was informed in other forums that: 1) Many owners have been experiencing this and actually there is a mj. pblm w/ the synchronizers, leading to gear grinding etc.; apparently Scion knows this as they had to replace a lot of these transmissions, but problems continue. 2) Owners also told me that Toyotas are known for blind spots (in comparison to Acura/Honda). I am glad to hear that your manual was untouched by transmission problems. I was sad that I have to give up on the Scion, but I am new to NJ, and reliant on a car, which is why I decided to buy a new car (ie. the "worry-free" upside). Thanks so much for your reply.
#100 of 186 Re: Integra Manual dvr had shifting pblms n ScionTC test drive:PLS HELP STAT:-) [nifab]
Jan 08, 2007 (1:05 pm)
Since this is also a Civic forum, I'll ask...
Have you test-driven a Civic coupe?
#101 of 186 Re: Integra Manual dvr had shifting pblms n ScionTC test drive:PLS HELP STAT:-) [thegraduate]
Jan 08, 2007 (7:40 pm)
This thread is actually posted in the ScionTC forum; so I did not realize it originated w/ the Civic group. I am going to try the LX (surprized the sunroof isn't std on the EX) & the Honda FitSport, but pretty difficult coming from an Integra. The Fit is cute & the space is great (more than the Civic in fact), but I don't know if she is really meant for highway or long distance driving; my impression was that the Fit was meant for city driving. I would have to try the LX; I don't know how she handles, nor she will respond to all those Toyotas out there running me off the road bc I'm in there blindspot...
#102 of 186 Re: Integra Manual dvr had shifting pblms n ScionTC test drive:PLS HELP STA
Jan 08, 2007 (9:25 pm)
Regarding the blind spots -- now I think I realize what some tC reviewers are talking about. It's true, I've also noticed the "blind spots", come to think of it, but they're the blind spots created by the pillars on the sides of the windshield (forgot what they're called), not so much the blind spots one watches out for when changing lanes (i.e., the blind spots in the rear/sides of the car). I've gotten used to it.
I thought that the tC has quite good reviews on the shifting/transmission. Hadn't heard anything about grinding gears or manufacturer recalls...
I didn't quite understand you when you said "...it's the downshifting that pulls me back" in reference to braking/downshifting. When I downshift, I always rev match so that there's no jerk of the car, and the car slows down quicker of course because of the increased resistance that comes with being in a lower gear (or else I might downshift to speed up, in which case I get better acceleration from being at a more favorable point along the torque curve, peak torque is at 4000 rpm). I might very well also apply the brakes at the same time (in the lower gear) to slow down, and may downshift again. It's fun. Sometimes I approach a light and downshift through the gears with rev-matching and no jerk of the car (and no sudden deceleration, the whole process is very very smooth) and apply the brakes for the first time when I'm at like 3 mph (at which point I would depress the clutch and shift from second or first, as the case may be, into neutral. It's supposed to be better to stay in neutral at stoplights and off the clutch than to have first gear selected and the clutch pressed in, slightly better for the car).
#103 of 186 Re: Integra Manual dvr had shifting pblms n ScionTC test drive:PLS HELP STA
Jan 08, 2007 (9:30 pm)
Hitting the brakes for the first time at 3 mph (when coming to a stop) is probably in first gear, and it was an estimate (I wait until the revs get down to 1000 before applying the clutch when coming to a stop, no matter what gear I'm in). The higher the gear you're in, the faster you'll be going when you get down to 1000 rpm. In second gear it might be more like 5 or 6 mph at 1000 rpms. In fifth gear I think it's like 15 or 20. I'm only mentioning these things for people who might be reading this and just learning how to drive a stick... (I've only been driving a manual for three months now so it's all still new and somewhat exciting to me so I like to share).
#104 of 186 Re: Integra Manual dvr had shifting pblms n ScionTC test drive:PLS HELP STA
Jan 09, 2007 (4:49 am)
Actually, this discussion appears in both the Civic and the tC groups. You'll find that to be the case with all comparison discussions. BTW, welcome!
#105 of 186 Testdrove both tC and Civic
Jan 09, 2007 (6:51 am)
I actually did two back-to-back testdrives of the tC and Civic. The first time was with friend that tried automatic versions of the tC and Civic EX coupe. He ended up buying the tC because it was cheaper and offered more features (EX coupes were going for MSRP at the time). I agreed with his decision because it's nice to have the tC's torque when you're driving an automatic. I was also pretty impressed with the tC's build quality and standard features.
Recently, I've started car shopping for myself and I went to testdrive manual versions of the tC and Civic LX. I care more about handling than features so I approached the testdrive differently than the previous one. I tried the tC first and was very disappointed at the transmission. It was rough and hard to shift smoothly. Also, the engine had good grunt at low RPMs but lost steam at higher RPMs. Feeling a bit let down, I headed over to the Honda dealership and tried a manual Civic LX. I immediately fell in love with the Civic package. Steering was sharp and the steering wheel had a nice weighted feeling to it. The shifter was just awesome. I could immediately make buttery-smooth shifts.
So my conclusion is:
Automatic Transmission -> Scion tC
Manual Transmission -> Any Civic