- #668 of 718
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Re: All 2000 Durango 4.7L Owners [mucuna]
by julia1974
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Mar 04, 2009 (3:51 pm)
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Replying to: mucuna (Feb 07, 2009 12:40 pm)
Should we be thankful that we're not alone in this dilemna? I have suffered the same symptoms and thanks to this site, saved hundreds or thousands on repairs. I disconnected my O2 sensor and my truck has run fine. Engine light stays on, of course. I live in a rural area so no need to worry about passing the emissions test. Was wondering though, if so many of us are having this issue, what does it take for dodge to realize it? I think there should be a recall.
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- #669 of 718
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Re: o2 sensor + power steering pressure switch Dodge Durango Nightmare [julia1974]
by ncdodgeowner
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Mar 06, 2009 (7:58 am)
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Replying to: julia1974 (Sep 19, 2008 10:06 am)
I have a 2000 Durango with this very same problem. Unfortunately, like many others I had to fiure it out myself as Dodge is no help whatsoever. I am a DIY'er, because I cannot afford the incompetance that most dealerships provide. My problem started back in 2007. I figured out the power steering switch link to the failing oxygen sensor, but like a lot of people, I still have gone through several sensors due to residual fluid in the wiring harness. Luckily, I have not needed the truck much since I only use it to pull a boat. But I cannot pass emmissions until the problem is fixed, and thanks to our state's new laws, I have been fined $50 for exceeding the inspection period. I have decided to tackle the problem and hopefully provide specifics: i.e. wire colors, locations, etc. so that anyone else who cannot afford dealership BS and runaround can have a solution to this problem. It has been mentioned in these posts before, but from what I have found, disconnecting the front O2 sensor will make the truck run much better if you are having the low MPG/black soot problem. This is caused by a faulty O2 signal caused by the power steering fluid contamination. When you disconnect the O2 sensor, you will get a fault, but it will put the computer (PCM)in a default mode that basically assumes the sensor is dead and will ignore the signal (or lack therof) and instead rely on a preprogrammed algorithm to make up for it. It is not the optimal settings, but you will get 15-16 MPG instead of 4-8, as you should not have the heavy black soot at the tailpipe anymore. For those of you who do not have to deal with a OBDII emmissions inspection, this is really all you need to do since the default program is almost as good as with the sensor (I personally cannot tell a difference). Unfortunately for those of us with emmissions, we have to fix it. I started my repairs last night, and hope to report back soon with specifics for all the DIY'ers out there if it has not already been posted here.
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- #670 of 718
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2002 Durango 5.9 starting problem
by atown
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Mar 09, 2009 (5:53 pm)
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My durango won't start. It cranks over but no start. The fuel pump comes on and I get 45lbs of pressure at the fuel rail. I sprayed carb cleaner in the air intake and nothing. I hit the gas tank with the back of a shovel and nothing. I'm lost! People say it's the fuel pump ,but I have doubts. Any help!!!!!
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- #671 of 718
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Re: o2 sensor + power steering pressure switch Dodge Durango Nightmare [ncdodgeowner]
by mucuna
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Mar 11, 2009 (4:57 pm)
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Replying to: ncdodgeowner (Mar 06, 2009 7:58 am)
Good luck. The moment I have been waiting for. I hope your method includes using the dodge harness bypass. This problem was remedied by dodge but no one including the dealer repair techs have a clue. It is incredible that I couldn't get competent service to get this fixed at my dodge dealer. I tried to tell them what the problem was. I pre-ordered the harness bypass. The corporate auto service division knows about the problem. They made a part to bypass the problem for crying out loud. But somehow the huberous nature of the service department mechanics they "assume" every common problem except what is really wrong with the car. I burned 1300 bucks total on needless repairs including replacing all 8 fuel injectors, 2 O2 sensors etc (no wonder Dodge doesn't bother to do anything about the real problem!). They denied my explanation of the problem and quoted me another 800 bucks to do exhaust repair PCM module replacement and on and on.
When I finally realized I was going to have to tackle fixing it myself, I found it outright scandelous that I can't find out how to install the harness bypass from my dodge dealership, from Dodge corporate, or from any other Dodge source- internet included. In fact this site is the only place this information is being discussed. This is a unique problem to the 2000 4.7L. In 1999 they didn't have a power steering switch (sensor) and by 2001 they fixed the PS design flaw. I agree with Julia there should have been a recall but it doesn't appear one was ever issued. Instead they just threw the replacement part out there and gave no direction to the dealerships to alert the mechanics, parts people, or the public. And we wonder why GM and Chrysler are tanking?
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- #672 of 718
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Re: o2 sensor + power steering pressure switch Dodge Durango Nightmare [mucuna]
by ncdodgeowner
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Mar 12, 2009 (5:16 am)
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Replying to: mucuna (Mar 11, 2009 4:57 pm)
I am not using the Dodge Bypass Harness. Given what I have read about it, and the cost, I am simply making a bypass harness myself. I have not seen it, but I assume that the harness offered by Dodge has to be "hard-wired" in to the wire bundle leading to the PCM. I have positively identified the signal wire in the main bundle. It is light green with a red stripe. Unfortunately there is more than one light green wire with a red stripe in the bundle. The other one goes to the transmission. I ended up cutting both to figure this out. There is also an isolated signal ground that is black with a blue stripe. Again, there is more than one of these, so getting the right one is an arduous task. Once I identified both of these, I was able to simulate the signal and watch the Fuel trim response in the PCM with a code reader. I determined that my O2 sensor was bad (another one) so I was unable to complete the hookup just yet.
I purchased a Bosch "Universal-fit" O2 sensor, but am skeptical if it will work, because I have read (and measured) an excitation voltage of 4 volts on the signal circuit. What I have read is that this voltage is part of a 'diagnostic function' that Dodge came up with to test the sensor, and only a Dodge O2 sensor will pass, otherwise setting another code/engine light. I am going to try the Bosch sensor in this setup first, since it is half the price of a Dodge sensor, and see if it works. leave it to Dodge to not only send out a defective vehicle, but make proprietary parts for it as well.
I am going to try this over the weekend and will report back with results. Once I get it all right, I will try to provide more information since Dodge has again "Dodged" the responsibility. By the way Chrysler, I will never buy another of your products, and hope your company folds so we can get junk like this out of America. 
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- #673 of 718
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Re: o2 sensor + power steering pressure switch Dodge Durango Nightmare [ncdodgeowner]
by mucuna
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Mar 14, 2009 (10:48 pm)
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Replying to: ncdodgeowner (Mar 12, 2009 5:16 am)
from what I under stand it is only the ground wire that gets contamintated because of a common connection it shares with the power steering ground. It looks like the o2 sensor and PS ground wires join and are connected in the harness about 4- 6 inches above where the upstream sensor wire branch come out. From earlier messages once the PS fluid reaches the o2 sensor connection it can then leak from the ground wire on the harness side into all four wires on the o2 sensor side because of the exposure created at the connection. This can ruin or foul the o2 sensor, the wiring and the connector when you remove and try to test it. I don't know if there is a way to get the PS fluid out of the wires. Other repairs posted involved cutting the connector on the harness side of the o2 connection, replacing all four pins on the harness side of the connector, and bypassing the contaminated ground wire by rerouting an new ground from the o2 sensor to the common ground on the engine block below the water pump.
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- #674 of 718
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Re: o2 sensor + power steering pressure switch Dodge Durango Nightmare [mucuna]
by ncdodgeowner
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Mar 15, 2009 (4:55 am)
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Replying to: mucuna (Mar 14, 2009 10:48 pm)
All of the wires get contaminated at the harness connector junction. There are some people running a separate ground wire and getting results, but I would not recommend this approach for two reasons: 1) you leave the O2 sensor wire in the harness with the power and ground wires for the heater, which it can also short to and ruin the sensor/degrade the signal. 2) the O2 sensor ground is not a ground in the sense of most other components. It is an isolated ground from the PCM that all sensors utilize. Grounding sensors directly to the vehicle chassis is grounding them to the same ground as the ignition coils, starter, and other electrically "noisy" components which can result in a bad signal to the PCM, which will create all the same problems as before. This may not occur immediately, or may never occur, but simply "re-grounding" the O2 sensor is not a good idea for a permanent solution.
You can replace the pins in the connector, but this still does not remove the ps fluid still coating all of the wires. While this may remove the immediate cause of the problem, the O2 connector is still the low point on this wiring harness, and eventually will again become the collection point for residual fluid in the harness. I can imagine this is why Dodge created a "bypass harness" since they realized that it was the best thing short of removing the entire wiring harness and cleaning the wires with de-greaser. (a viable option if you are that determined  ), or replacing the whole harness - $$. Unfortunately, it appears that most Dodge "techs" are ignorant of how to install it, since it only occured on one model vehicle, in one model year.
I sucessfully finished repairing mine yesterday after 1.5 years of screwing with it, researching it, and letting my Durango sit in the yard (could not get it registered with engine light on)
If you look at an engine wiring diagram (hayes, chilton, etc.) it shows the four wires to the O2 sensor. There is 12V for the heater, a "chassis-ground" for the heater, a signal wire from the sensor, and a "PCM-ground" for the sensor. (I am making up the ground terms to keep them separate, do not look for them in the manual) . I left the sensor connected to the heater and heater ground, since I had proper voltage there, and the heater circuit fuse has not blown. The heater circuit can handle a lot more contamination than the sensor circuit since it can just "burn" through it, so I have left it intact for now since it is not part of the problem.
I ran two new wires from the sensor, the signal and "PCM" ground wires, up to where the PCM is mounted on top of the right fenderwell in the engine compartment. (the black 'signal' and gray 'ground' wire if you are using a Bosch universal replacement) From there I opened the main harness leading into the PCM and located the wires. The signal is a light green with red stripe,(note there are two wires this color, one is O2, one is transmission, I used trial and error) and the "PCM isolated ground" is black with a blue stripe. The signal wire must be cut, and the new wire from the sensor connected to the end going into the PCM. If you do not cut it, but rather spice it, you have essentially left your sensor connected to the point of contamination that you are trying to avoid. The ground wire must be spliced into the one in the harness bundle so as not to disconnect other devices using the same ground. I used an automotive crimp style spice sold at auto stores.
So far I have driven 70 miles with no problems. I have a scanner, and both oxygen sensors are reading fine. The front sensor switches from  0.080 volts to 0.810 volts at a regular interval. The system is running in closed loop mode like it should, and there is no engine light.
I understand this may be somewhat vague if you are not somewhat handy with automotive wiring, but this post is half a novel already so I will leave it at this for now to see what areas are clear and which are not so they can be answered in future posts. If I get the time I would like to put the whole procedure on a webpage with pictures since Dodge is not really helping anyone and this is the only place on the entire web that is.
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- #675 of 718
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Re: o2 sensor + power steering pressure switch Dodge Durango Nightmare [ncdodgeowner]
by mucuna
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Mar 15, 2009 (10:15 am)
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Replying to: ncdodgeowner (Mar 15, 2009 4:55 am)
very informative. There is room for a website where expert mechanics post detailed repairs and answer questions. It would be awesome to see this website take that on,
I'm sure whoever does it that it could be monetized with ads from every auto part store.
I still have a couple questions.
Do you know the wire colors from the original factory o2 sensor- Are they the same as the Bosch?
You determined the correct wire between the two same-colored wires in the harness the PCM (tranny vs O2) using "trial and error". What procedure did you perform, and what result were you looking for, to determine which was the correct wire?.
Let us all know the name of the webpage if you create it.
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- #676 of 718
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Re: o2 sensor + power steering pressure switch Dodge Durango Nightmare [mucuna]
by steve_ HOST
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Mar 15, 2009 (10:24 am)
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Replying to: mucuna (Mar 15, 2009 10:15 am)
I think you're there. 
There's also Edmunds Answers.
Mostly the trick is using the search tools if you have something specific you need info on and then post if you don't see a thread that helps.
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