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Subaru Forester, Car Leasing, SUV
#251 of 592 Car_man: Chase Lease - Buyout Negotiation??
Mar 29, 2009 (9:54 am)
Hi Car_man and friends...
I have a 2005 Forester XT Premium (top of the trim level, leather, sunroof, etc.), 63K miles in good condition (just got an a-ok on the 60K service, minor front bumper ding, but otherwise excellent).
I love the car, and am seriously over my 48K mi on my 4-year lease (Subaru/Chase), so have decided I'd rather do the buyout, which is listed $13,200, plus disposition fee.
Question is this: Can I get Chase to negotiate on any of the terms? I'm thinking this would be a cash sale to them (have some home equity, and would do it through that at 2.9%, rather than separate financing). Can I get them to at least waive the dispo fee, and is there room to negotiate the price? How does this conversation happen?
I've been hearing that Turbos are a drag on the market (even though I love mine, I can understand the gas mileage concerns) and am wondering if there's any motivation on Chase's end not to see the car come back to them, and where/how to get some traction.
SInce the lease ends on 4/16, I'm assuming this is the time to act.
#252 of 592 2009 Forester April Lease Numbers?
Mar 31, 2009 (11:14 am)
Car_Man - looking for April numbers for both MF & residual %s. Specifically looking for:
-Forester X Premium with weather package, automatic transmission &
-Forester 2.5XT Premium
36 month lease, 12K miles per year.
#253 of 592 Re: Car_man: Chase Lease - Buyout Negotiation?? [brookotter]
Apr 06, 2009 (7:49 am)
Just a bump on this, no response as yet...
#254 of 592 Re: Car_man: Chase Lease - Buyout Negotiation?? [brookotter]
Apr 08, 2009 (5:53 am)
In my experience you cannot negotiate the end of lease buyout if you are wanting to purchase it. The only way it can be done is if you want to trade it in early before your final payment. Really this can only be done (normally) if you are under mileage and the car is in perfect condition and you got an awesome deal on your monthly payment. Usually on a trade in you only pay the depreciation portion of your monthly payment multiplied by the number of months left on your lease.
In your case however, you are stuck with no options. You'll have to pay the disposition fee AND sales tax on the pre-determined end value. Not worth it in my opinion. How far over miles are you?
#255 of 592 Re: Car_man: Chase Lease - Buyout Negotiation?? [chuck68516]
Apr 08, 2009 (4:57 pm)
Thanks for the feedback!
It's a 48K/48Mo lease, I'm at 64.5K, at .15/mi over. There's a fender ding that would be about $700 to repair, according to my body shop.
#256 of 592 Re: Car_man: Chase Lease - Buyout Negotiation?? [brookotter]
Apr 08, 2009 (9:34 pm)
I still think it will be cheaper to pay your excess mileage charge and turn it in. Even if it costs you $3,000 it will be cheaper than buying it at lease end. If you buy it, you will have to pay off your new loan as no one will buy it back from you for that kind of money. Sales tax alone would be 1/3 of your excess mileage charge.
Some dents are normal wear and tear. They should send you a template in the mail near your lease end showing you what the acceptable damages are. As long as it's within the template limits you will just be paying for the mileage.
Also what ever you do, do not lease again. You drive WAY too much to lease. Leasing really only makes financial sense for people who can keep it under 12,000 miles a year. Even at 15,000 miles per year you are pushing the limits of normal wear and tear. 48 month leases are also not the best idea. Try to keep it within the 36 month bumper to bumper warranty and avoid having to spend money for new tires, brakes, etc. The 60,000 mile service alone at a Subaru dealer probably cost you over $500 correct?
#257 of 592 Re: Car_man: Chase Lease - Buyout Negotiation?? [chuck68516]
Apr 09, 2009 (5:23 am)
I agree with you heartily that l'm driving too many miles to lease these days. However, my life changed during the lease (another reason against leasing).
At this point, you're also right about a lot of the maintenance: brakes have been done all around $700, as have tires $600, and the 60K service including filters and belts, which was a total of $600. So, that's money already spent. I did purchase the Subaru 48M/60K warrantee, but not sure it was worth it in retrospect, as the only things needed were maintenance items past 36K. Also, spilt milk.
Looking forward, wIth the trim/option I have (XT, Premium, leather, sunroof, alloy wheels, premium sound, and security) and taking into account the region, color and high miles, the TMV on the car is between $14.7 and 16 for a dealer-purchased (retail/certified) vehicle, which I'd consider to be my replacement cost. I've looked at several similar cars (model, trim, condition, mileage) on lots and they do seem to be priced in the TMV range.
So, even taking into account the purchase option fee, and the sales tax (which I'd overlooked, thanks), the cost the buyout would be less than the retail TMV. Checking my contract this am, it's puchase option $12651, plus $150 purchase option fee, plus 5% tax $660, for a total of $13,433.
Are there other costs I'm missing that would impact this price? (I'm not worrying about excise ($65/yr) or registration ($40) as those are costs I'd have whether I kept this or got something else, and the excise is actually lower on this car because of the depreciation.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I think what I'd be doing here - even in the absence of being able to negotiate on buyout price - would be to buy the car for about what it's worth on the open market.
I'd be paying 2.9% on the money I'd be using to buy the car, and then my plan would be to pay it off and drive it till the wheels fall off, or when I can afford to buy (rather than lease) something I want - what I used to do before I started leasing nicer cars.
Again, since I've not done this before, I'm wondering what I'm missing considering your advice above, but this doesn't seem to be a bad decision moving forward (the bad decision was to lease in the first place
#258 of 592 Re: Car_man: Chase Lease - Buyout Negotiation?? [brookotter]
Apr 09, 2009 (9:38 am)
If you've already put new brakes and tires, belts, etc. on it and you think it can go another 5 years I would consider keeping it. My only point was you are going to be spending a lot of money over the next 5 years for maintenance and out of warranty repairs. That and the fact that the used car market is terrible. You'd be lucky to get trade in value for it even if you sold it privately. A dealer would give you wholesale price if you ever decided to trade it in.
According to KBB the Trade In value of a 2005 XT Premium is $10,675. Autotrader.com has 39 listings with the average ASKING price being $14,000. It may be worth somewhere between $10,000 and $14,000 on the open market but if you have to finance nearly $14,000 plus pay for repairs and maintenance on it, you might as well wash your hands of it now while you still can. Your 48 months of lease payments have already added up to what $18,000? More? Add in the extended warranty you bought, services, routine maintenance, tires, etc. and you've paid for the entire MSRP of this car already once. Might as well not pay for it twice.
#259 of 592 Re: Is this a good deal? [optimum]
Apr 09, 2009 (11:38 am)
Optimum, I am going to sign some papers for the Limited this weekend, I am curious what your out of pocket expenses were for, are you putting money down? My numbers are very similar to yours. Thanks.
#260 of 592 Re: Is this a good deal? [optimum]
by Car_man HOST
Apr 13, 2009 (3:41 am)
Welcome optimum. Since you are new to, you definitely should check out the following informative articles that are available here at Edmunds.com prior to visiting any dealers: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car and Calculate Your Own Lease Payment.
In short, the best way to get a good deal on a leased vehicle is to negotiate as low a selling price as possible on the vehicle that you want and then have the dealer calculate your vehicle's monthly payment using its buy rate lease money factor.
You are off to a good start because you already know what this vehicle's selling price is. The model that you are interested in probably has a spread of around $2,400 between its full MSRP and its dealer invoice price. The $2,278 dealer discount that you were quoted looks very attractive to me, assuming that no customer cap cost reduction was used to arrive at it.
Just make sure that the dealer uses Subaru's current buy rate lease money factor of .00120 to calculate your monthly payment and you're in business.
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum