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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Mercedes-Benz S-Class Lease Questions
134 messages, Last post on Sep 30, 2009 at 8:43 AM
You are in the Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum. Your Hosts are car_man & kyfdx
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Replying to: delta737h (Aug 07, 2007 2:41 pm) Well a new day is here, and hope it will be much better than yesterday. For some reason when the morning starts with a bad thing, it just keeps building and every deal has something wrong. A car we had to deliver had a scratch magically appear in the rear bumper, and we wont deliver like that. Not fair to the customer. Then my tinting guy showed up an hour late with the customer waiting here, drivers license got lost from a deal, so literally everything went as smoothly as as a bad case of acne. But today is a new day, and hopefully a few "good" deals come my way, with some rate and aftersales in them. For me by the way a good deal is how much money is on the backend, I could care less if they give the car away at triple net. I hope you have a great day ! Hey, do you think anyone else reads our daily chats? Julius
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Replying to: juice1220 (Aug 08, 2007 4:33 am) Good day my friend. John |
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Replying to: delta737h (Aug 05, 2007 3:56 pm) |
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Replying to: britcrlvr (Aug 11, 2007 3:25 pm) I don't think I would label them all as slimy individuals. However, they're definitely not the brightest bulbs on the chandelier. If they were, they'd be selling toilet seats to the government at $10K a pop. Of course, they'd have to qualify as being both bright and slimy to do that job. John |
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Replying to: britcrlvr (Aug 11, 2007 3:25 pm) Your words are so kind and gentle. The intelligence is just oozing out of you. Since your #1 objective is to rip off the car dealer, I am sure you have gotten ripped off in the past, and now you are just bitter. Maybe in the future you will get ripped off again, or just not given the treatment you think you deserve, because of the attitude you are starting the deal with. Good luck. |
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Replying to: britcrlvr (Aug 11, 2007 3:25 pm) You surprised me be responding in the way you did. Brit is definitely not the person who would buy your book. J
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Replying to: juice1220 (Aug 14, 2007 5:03 am) As I indicated, not all sales people are slimy. It's true that most car salesmen are not among the best and brightest. They can't even converse intelligently about car leasing. Most of them can't calculate a lease payment... that's disgraceful! And forget about them doing a lease v. buy analysis... they haven't a clue. They can't make decisions which is why they're constantly running back and forth to their sales managers. So that reduces them to no more than order takers and is why they're expendable. When I FAX/email lease proposals, I always send them to either the GM or the F&I guy. I won't waste my time dealing with floor sales personnel. Why??? Because they're NOT decision makers. I want someone who can make a decision. Also, my book is not going to target dealership sales people only because they're simply not interested in academic pursuits. This book is for the academically motivated and most car salesmen, unfortunately, do not fall into this category. In fact, most Americans don't fall into that category. That's why we have to import all that magnificent foreign brain power to do math, science, and engineering. If brit feels he's been screwed, perhaps he should educate himself and buy my book. Otherwise, it doesn't do much good to complain if you're not going to take the time and effort required to educate yourself. The price of stupidity is sky high. I make no apologies for what I've said because that's the reality. Sad, but true. John |
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no actually the last deal I made I offered 63K for an 07 Jag XJ8L and was accepted. In my book I came out ahead. 2 although you claim that faxing over a number to the dealership helps you get the best deal, you have already played your hand, and they have the position over you. It would be better for you to wait and let the dealership make the first offer. as you insinuated stupidity has no limits.
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Replying to: britcrlvr (Aug 14, 2007 1:46 pm) You couldn't be more wrong. No dealer has ever taken advantage or has had the upper hand with me. How could they? I don't mean to be boastful or arrogant; but I know more about lease financing than they could ever hope to know. For instance, I know exactly how GMAC and Ford Motor Credit computes lease payments. Most people don't. In fact, I don't know of anyone who does! I often see some of our hosts telling people to convert the GMAC rate to a money factor to get an estimate of the payment. ESTIMATES or BALL PARK DOESN'T CUT IT! They'll get you close but they are not good enough for a lease proposal. At least, not the ones I create. Try doing the following experiment... Choose any GM dealership at random and ask the GM or F&I guy how GMAC computes lease payments. I promise you they won't know. The only thing they know is what their computers tell them. That reflects poorly on them. And, you think they're going to have the upper hand over me? YOU MUST ALWAYS IN CONTROL OF THE DEAL. When you make a statement like... "...you have already played your hand, and they have the position over you. It would be better for you to wait and let the dealership make the first offer. as you insinuated stupidity has no limits." it speaks volumes about you. It certainly shows your inexperience because it clearly illustrates that you don't have the knowledge or confidence to negotiate with dealerships. The key to negotiating with dealerships is DON'T NEGOTIATE. No offense, but your statement is a billboard that says you're inexperienced, brit. One often hears the advice to keep trades and new car transactions seperate. That's only because most folks are inexperienced. Your approach is used by a lot of people because they're inexperienced. Heck, if I were inexperienced, I'd be doing the same thing. For example, many people will wait for the dealer to make an offer on the lease payment. And then, they counteroffer. BIG MISTAKE! NEVER EVER NEGOTIATE PAYMENT IN A LEASE. That's EXACTLY what dealers want you to do. ALWAYS negotiate sell price. And, above all, know how to calculate lease payments. Otherwise, you're dead in the water. To be honest, I'm not interested in what they have to offer in terms of sell price and couldn't careless! I've done my homework and know exactly what to offer in terms of sell price. I've checked multiple sources and have factored in supply and demand, customer and dealer incentives, MSRP/invoice pricing, holdback, spiffs, etc. I routinely FAX/email a very professional looking one page lease proposal. In fact, several people in other forums have used my proposal as a template to negotiate their leases and have done so very successfully. For instance, below is an example of a lease proposal constructed by yours truly. And even though the numbers aren't aligned, they are in my word document. Every number was calculated by me; not the dealer. NEVER EVER let the dealer do ANY calculations. Do them yourself! And, you had better be spot on; otherwise, you're going to look very foolish. 2007 Acura TSX Retail Pricing Information Base MSRP 2007Acura TSX 5 Speed Automatic (CL9687JW) . 28,090.00 Premium Pearl White . . 0.00 Destination Charge . . 670.00 MSRP .. . ... 28,760.00 Agreed Upon Value . 26,700.00 Amounts Financed 1st Months Payment 361.71 Security Deposit .. 375.00 Acquisition Fee 595.00 Sales Tax  6.00% x 35 x 329.77
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.. 692.52 Capitalized Costs Gross Capitalized Cost . 28,724.23 Capitalized Cost Reduction . . 0.00 Adjusted Capitalized Cost 28,724.23 Residual Data Residual Factor .. . . 0.62 Residual Value (Residual Factor Χ MSRP) .. . . . 17,831.20 Cost of Money/Term Money Factor (0% reserves) . . . 0.00127 Term (months) . 36 Lease Payment Itemization Monthly Lease Payment including Sales Tax .. . . . 361.71 Monthly Lease Payment excluding Sales Tax .. .. 340.99 Taxable Monthly Lease Payment 329.77 ________________________________________________________________________________- - - - - - - - - ______ Charges Payable at Lease Origination License, Title, Registration Fees (estimated) . . . . . 120.00 Amount Due at Lease Signing .... . 120.00 GAP Coverage Included Annual Mileage Allowance: 10,000 Disposition Fee: None Excess Mileage $0.15 per mile Reg. M Disclosure: NA ______________________________________________________________________ All that remains, assuming the dealer accepts, is to transplant the numbers from the proposal to the lease contract. It should be clear that the purpose of a proposal is to save lots of time, save money, and eliminate aggravation. I call the dealer soon after Ive FAXED/emailed my proposal to review it with them. Should they ask silly questions such as how I arrived at the agreed upon value, I politely tell them that it is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether or not they can do the deal. THE ONLY RESPONSE I WANT TO HEAR IS EITHER: (A) YES, WE CAN DO THE DEAL OR; (B) NO, WE CANT DO THE DEAL. THERE IS NO NEGOTIATING! So tell me; how do they have "position" over me? If they say no, I simply FAX/email the proposal to another dealer... pretty easy, huh? If they can do the deal per the proposal, I ALWAYS make sure that they are in complete agreement with every last bit of detail described. Nearly every number on that proposal must be transplanted to the lease agreement. If it's not, I won't sign. I want to make it virtually impossible for them to claim that they made a mistake once Ive arrived at the dealership. If they say that they made an error once Ive arrived, theyre going to look awfully silly. In that case, I remind them that the purpose of this exercise is to prevent mistakes, save time, and eliminate aggravation for all concerned. Unless they can remedy their mistake quickly, I tell them that Ill be taking my business elsewhere and thank them for wasting my time as well as their's. The GM of a dealership once told me he forgot the tax on the bank fee. I reminded him that there is no tax on this fee in the state of Ohio. Unfortunately, some dealers will will try to get away with as much as possible. I walked and they lost a sale. I have zero tolerance for dishonesty and/or incompetence. I hope you can better appreciate my approach. |
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