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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Mercedes-Benz S-Class Lease Questions
134 messages, Last post on Sep 30, 2009 at 8:43 AM
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Replying to: juice1220 (Aug 06, 2007 5:08 pm) You're absolutely correct; the car buying process is a game. In fact, if the game is played fairly it can be described as a zero-sum game. Operations research folks are very familiar with this term. Basically, it means that one's gain (+) is another's loss (-) so that gain + loss = 0. However, one needs to recognize that there are gains and losses on both sides that are effectively neutralized. Unfortunately, some folks choose to play the game unfairly. It's always in everyone's best interest to preserve the integrity of the game and play fair. As I had previously indicated, the game is played with the following objective... Dealer: Max{Revenue} Customer: Min{Cost} Of course, there are also those intangible benefits (customer satisfaction, repeat business, etc.) that are difficult to quantify. As far as car sales is concerned, I think it's all in the approach and presentation. Some dealerships need to take a much more professional approach. I can spot a faker faster than you can blink and that's why I find it convenient to FAX/email lease proposals. My instructions are crystal clear: Transplant the numbers to the lease contract, have the papers ready for me to sign and the keys ready for me to go! Proposals have saved me a lot of time, money, and aggravation. They are professionally done by me and send the dealer a very strong message: I know a lot about leasing so let's cut the bull and get down to business because my time is valuable and so is your's. Should they ask silly questions such as how I arrived at the agreed upon value, I politely tell them that it is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether or not they can do the deal. The only response I want to hear is either: (A) YES, WE CAN DO THE DEAL OR; (B) NO, WE CAN’T DO THE DEAL. I want to be sure that they are in complete agreement with every last bit of detail described in the proposal and want to make it virtually impossible for them to claim that they made a mistake once I’ve arrived at the dealership. If they say that they made an error once I’ve arrived, they’re going to look awfully silly. Afterall, one of the purposes of creating a proposal is to prevent mistakes. Years ago, the GM of a dealership once told me he forgot the tax on the bank fee. I reminded him that there is no tax on this fee in the state of Ohio. Unfortunately, some dealers are like children. Either the GM was lying or; he was just plain incompetent. Either way, it didn't reflect well on him. I was gone because I have zero tolerance for deceit or incompetence. I have heard that maintenance costs associated with BMW's is sky high compared with similar makes. I have no idea whether or not that's true. I actually heard that from a BMW mechanic who works for a local BMW dealership. I was pretty sure that you guys were paid on reserves and aftersales (warranties, term life insurance, etc). I also know that it's far from a glamorous life... I certainly don't envy you. Frankly and, to be very candid, I'm not really a people person. I tend to have a short fuse. I'm very direct and am like 20 bulls in a china shop. I have absolutely no diplomacy whatsoever and I hate the term "politically correct" as it doesn't apply to me. I have no problem with confronting people and holding them responsible and accountable. And so, yes, I have some pretty rough edges. In our politically correct society, it seems that no one wants to point fingers or hold each other accountable. That's a lot of horse sh*t! If I screw up, believe me, I'll be the first to admit it as I am my own worst critic. I remember when I worked in my dad's insurance business when I was in high school. I understated a customer's auto insurance premium by $67. My dad docked me $67 and said: "when you're in business and you make mistakes, you EAT your mistakes". It was a great lesson and one that I will never forget. God bless that man; rest his soul! As far as my lease book and "bashing" dealers is concerned, that's out of the question. It's both tasteless and classless. My book is going to be more like a college level textbook complete with some pretty high powered mathematical discussion. It's not going to be like the pop books that you see at Barnes Noble or Borders. Those books are worthless conversation and amount to no more than a very long drink of water (kind of like my posts... lol). By the time one finishes reading my book, they're going to be extraordinarily knowledgeable about leasing and will know much more than most dealership personnel. Knowledge = Power! This is in no way meant to impugn your background as I'm sure that you are exceptionally well versed in the F&I field; certainly much more so that I am. At any rate, it has been a pleasure to dialogue with you, Julius. I hope that we can one day meet. Regards, John
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Replying to: delta737h (Aug 07, 2007 5:08 am) Just a quick response, because I am having a day from hell in the car buisness.  Everything that can has gone wrong, and I am about to tear my hair out, walk, and flip burgers in Mcdonalds. Your book sounds like very good reading, and I certainly would buy it. BUT, the average consumer, wouldnt care becaus it would be too in depth. The average customer would buy the book, on how to screw the dealer when leasing a car. But most people dont want to know how to compute a lease. Its sad, but that is the state of todays society. Hence we have hours and hours of media coverage about trainwrecks like Lyndsay Lohan, and Paris Hilton. That is what sells. Making people better and more intelligent is blah blah blah today. Anyway, I gotta get back to my nightmare day, but thanks for the refreshing break. Julius
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Replying to: juice1220 (Aug 07, 2007 1:34 pm) Sorry to hear about your day from hell. Anything I can do to help (lol)? I do hope that things are going much smoother for you now. Regarding my book; I couldn't agree with you more. Many people are just brain lazy and have their priorities all screwed up. Academics in this country takes a back seat to everything else and sports occupies all the front row seats which is why we have to import all that magnificent foreign brain power (Asians) to do our math, science, and engineering. How this nation is going to compete in a very tough and competitive global market 10 or 15 years downstream is a mystery to me. We have some very fine young talent but the problem is that we don't have enough of them to meet future demand. Anyway, I refuse to cater to the ignorance of the masses in this country even though it will severely compromise my royalty income. So many authors pacify their readership by over simplifying complicated concepts. Anytime you simplify something that is inherently complicated, you necessarily risk distorting it and that I will not do. I cringe when I browse through the "pop" books on car leasing. You can't begin to imagine the number of mistakes that I see and that goes for just about any other "pop" book. I'm sick of a nation loaded with sports fanatics and World Federation Wrestling TV-watching morons. TV programming, newspapers, and advertisements speak volumes about the intelligence of a nation. My book is not meant for everyone. Anyone who reads it will have to have a strong academic orientation, be disciplined and motivated, and commit themselves to some very serious study. It will be no Sunday afternoon stroll in the park. Wishing you a better tomorrow... John
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Replying to: delta737h (Aug 07, 2007 2:41 pm) Well a new day is here, and hope it will be much better than yesterday. For some reason when the morning starts with a bad thing, it just keeps building and every deal has something wrong. A car we had to deliver had a scratch magically appear in the rear bumper, and we wont deliver like that. Not fair to the customer. Then my tinting guy showed up an hour late with the customer waiting here, drivers license got lost from a deal, so literally everything went as smoothly as as a bad case of acne. But today is a new day, and hopefully a few "good" deals come my way, with some rate and aftersales in them. For me by the way a good deal is how much money is on the backend, I could care less if they give the car away at triple net. I hope you have a great day ! Hey, do you think anyone else reads our daily chats? Julius
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Replying to: juice1220 (Aug 08, 2007 4:33 am) Good day my friend. John |
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Replying to: delta737h (Aug 05, 2007 3:56 pm) |
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Replying to: britcrlvr (Aug 11, 2007 3:25 pm) I don't think I would label them all as slimy individuals. However, they're definitely not the brightest bulbs on the chandelier. If they were, they'd be selling toilet seats to the government at $10K a pop. Of course, they'd have to qualify as being both bright and slimy to do that job. John |
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Replying to: britcrlvr (Aug 11, 2007 3:25 pm) Your words are so kind and gentle. The intelligence is just oozing out of you. Since your #1 objective is to rip off the car dealer, I am sure you have gotten ripped off in the past, and now you are just bitter. Maybe in the future you will get ripped off again, or just not given the treatment you think you deserve, because of the attitude you are starting the deal with. Good luck. |
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Replying to: britcrlvr (Aug 11, 2007 3:25 pm) You surprised me be responding in the way you did. Brit is definitely not the person who would buy your book. J
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