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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Mercedes-Benz S-Class Lease Questions
134 messages, Last post on Sep 30, 2009 at 8:43 AM
You are in the Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum. Your Hosts are car_man & kyfdx
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Replying to: juice1220 (Jun 29, 2007 6:46 pm)
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Replying to: topspin628 (Jun 29, 2007 7:09 pm)
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Replying to: juice1220 (Jun 29, 2007 7:28 pm) |
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Can you give me a bit of guidance on my above posts on the CPO purchase vs new purchase benefits/costs? I don't see a clear advantage of buying a CPO vs leasing a new version with the lower monthly payments even when one adds in the fact that they will own the CPO and thus have some equity at the end of the term. The reduced payments seem to make up for it and when you factor in not paying tax on the entire amount with the lease (8% on 60K for the purchase vs 8% on the lease payments only, the additional maintainance for the CPO, lower money factor on the new lease etc) at best it's a wash. Plus one has the "risk" of the CPO not holding its value as anticipated, the potential value of investing the extra money from the lower payments elsewhere etc. Please enlighten me on the high end CPO benefits IF one doesn't plan on keeping the car for more than 4 years. Thanks.
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Replying to: topspin628 (Jul 10, 2007 5:23 am) |
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Replying to: domain123 (May 31, 2006 8:16 am)
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Replying to: bmwcrzr (Jul 10, 2007 2:38 pm) |
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Replying to: bmwcrzr (Jul 10, 2007 2:38 pm)
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Replying to: mbcarbuyer (Jul 20, 2007 9:50 am) J
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Replying to: juice1220 (Jul 20, 2007 10:10 am) LET the dealer stay in business??? I don't owe that to any dealer. The dealer is responsible for staying in business; not me! Frankly, I as a consumer couldn't careless whether or not a dealership survives. In my view, car and insurance sales people are expendable (my dad and brother were in the insurance business). America is too FAT and needs to go on a diet. Unnecessary middlemen doesn't help matters. Why would I need a car sales person? Service? Baloney! The revolving door in car sales is alive and well! Know why? If you don't, you certainly should! Car sales people are usually NOT EMPOWERED to make decisions! Why? I'll leave that to you to figure out. Do I need a sales person to explain financing? To explain how GPS works? I can assure you that I have more expertise in these areas than than they do. So, why do I need them? What useful purpose do they serve? Consumers will always act in their own best interest by trying to minimize cost. Dealers, on the other hand, will act to preserve their best interests by trying to maximize revenue. And so, some negotiating needs to occur. For instance, traditionally, a lease contract is a contract of adhesion which means that it is a non-negotiable agreement between parties of unequal bargaining power. However, in order to craft a fair and equitable agreement that best preserves fair gamesmanship, good faith bargaining demands that all parties have equal access to all pertinent information including cost of money (i.e., money factors, interest rates) and residual factors. The FRBB's Reg. M does not require that money factors be disclosed. The auotmotive industry lobbyists argued that such disclosures would CONFUSE consumers. That's both insulting and very presumptuous! I'm not the least bit confused and there are many others just like me who aren't confused either. Their argument is severely flawed and amounts to nothing more that a POOR EXCUSE for non-disclosure. And that's just one example of what angers me about NADA, NVLA, etc., and their lobbyists. I always FAX/email a one page lease proposal to a car dealership... one at a time. I don't play games such as: Can you beat this? That's crap! Ball park numbers don't cut it either! If the dealer agrees, all they need to do is transplant the numbers in my proposal directly onto the lease agreement, have the papers ready for me to sign, and away I go. Yes, it's that simple. I live in Ohio and what I've discovered, also makes me very angry. Many Ohio dealerships (and others) make mistakes especially in those cases where the first payment is to be capitalized into the lease. The capitalized first payment seldom matches the remaining payments. ALL payments MUST match... it's NOT rocket science... trust me. In addition, sales tax is often computed incorrectly. I patiently worked with a leasing software developer not long ago and they finally saw the light. Obviously, there were flaws in their leasing software. I later learned that they continued with their erroneous ways. Makes me furious! Some leasing software developers do not understand leasing mathematics and neither do dealerships. Here, I'll prove it... Ask any dealership to compute monthly payments where the first of those payments is to be capitalized in the lease. I promise you that the calculation will be wrong 95% of the time. The capitalized payment will be less than the remaining payments. Now, why would I want to do business with dealerships, much less care whether they make a profit or not, knowing that they can't correctly compute lease payments??? I love it when car sales people ask me how they can earn my business. I always respond with something they've never heard before... "you can CORRECTLY complete the lease agreement. Every number must be spot on. I'll make it easy for you; here's my lease proposal."... Almost always, I have to correct them (and they don't even listen or care... it's their attitude and that makes me furious) and then, I simply move on. I'm very cordial and just want to be helpful. Usually, they'll cop an arrogant attitude. Remember, customers can have an attitude (I don't condone it)... you can't!!! Regarding pricing... Pricing is governed by supply and demand dynamics. If market conditions are such that consumers refuse to pay more than dealer cost, then you as a dealership must decide whether or not you're willing and able to sell at or below cost. Many people don't realize that Dealer Cost < Invoice. Some people are getting fabulous deals on Honda Pilots right now. Check the pilot forums. I won't apologize for spouting off. I'm sick of uncaring sales people whining and crying. All they seem to care about is making a sale and couldn't careless about academics (e.g., financial mathematics). And, please, don't give me the excuse that it's the F&I guy's responsibility. That's pure bull! Every salesmen should know how to compute payments, understand cash flow analysis, etc., and be responsible as well as accountable. Otherwise, they're nothing more than order takers. Want fries with that? John Medina, Ohio
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