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Lexus RX 450h, Lexus RX 350, Car Leasing, SUV
#2083 of 2667 Re: RX 450h-36mo-15kyr-$600 mo. lease wanted [guruuno]
Dec 22, 2010 (7:09 pm)
OK, dealership referenced in initial post was Lexus of Edison (NJ)
Went to Ray Catena Lexus of Monmouth this evening, here is that offer:
2011 RX450h, MSRP $51,777 (same vehicle as other, only no 19" wheels or LED/HID headlamps).
Negotiated price is $45,900, MF is 0.0017
36 mo./15k yr. $599/mo. (incl. NJ tax) ($3k down, $1,865.50 acquisition fees, etc.), total $4,865.50 at signing.
turn in 2007 Toyota Camry HYBRID [loaded] (had 48 mo lease, 4 mo. early), had 3k over in mileage (is now 51k), they will pay off/take in Camry, make new RX450h a 42Mo. lease for $629/mo or 48 mo. lease for $619/mo.
So the question(s) are:
$599/36 mo/15k yr + $4,865 w/no turn in (I'm responsible for Camry disposal)
$619/48 mo/15k yr + $4,865 they take Camry and I'm done with it
$629/42 mo/15k yr + $4,865 they take Camry and I'm done with it.
So it the Camry is already 3k over on mileage ( .15 per mile/$450) with 4 payments of $596.22 left and a payoff of $15,043.62 that is like $2,800 vs. the deal as specified above.
I was hoping to keep the payments at $599/36 mo/15k yr WITH them taking the Camry and paying it off, but not gonna happen.
Is there any "wiggle" room left to tweak before commitment or it this as good as it gets?
I do appreciate the help and wealth of information offered here.
#2084 of 2667 Re: RX 450h-36mo-15kyr-$600 mo. lease wanted [guruuno]
Dec 22, 2010 (7:59 pm)
First off according the carman, the money factor should be .00015. At worst they should give you .00016 if not .00015. (disregard. after reading the forum it seems like a 15k mile lease get's a higher MF)
As for the options where they take the camary, i'm assuming you took the camry to a carmax and made sure they won't take you out of it with no cost?
To figure out what they are charging you to take the camry, you'll need the residuals for each lease then just plug the numbers into a generic lease calculator (fount on the internet).
Just ask the dealer what the buyout/residual is on each lease option.
Then compare what they are charging you for taking the camry vs. what it would cost you to unload it at carmax.
As for the price you are paying, is that below invoice?
#2085 of 2667 Re: RX 450h-36mo-15kyr-$600 mo. lease wanted [cartman13]
Dec 22, 2010 (9:27 pm)
I'll check in the AM as to the exact MF by contacting the sales rep.
I did not take the Camry to Carmax, I was not aware of that process. Please elaborate as to the benefits, etc., and other than getting a value of what they offer, are you saying if the buyout is "X" from Toyota, and Carmax says it will only offer you "Y", I should forget any other values I see in KBB, NADA, eBay, retail dealers lots, and only focus on wholesale trade-in value? I do understand the advantages of just turning in the car and walking away, but one would think it should not cost more than the 4 remaining payments + any mileage overage (which as of today would equal about $2,800).
The payoff for the Camry is $15,043.62 as of today. That's the same as the buyout, no/yes? If not, please elaborate. (The actual buyout on the Camry lease states $13,526 at the end of the lease term in April 2011).
When you say, "made sure they won't take you out of it with no cost", you mean who, Carmax, the dealer, anyone? Bottom line on that is if the payoff is X, and I pay it off, it's worth that to whoever buys it, and are you saying if Carmax or the dealer offers less than what the payoff is, that's all I'd get and have to make up the difference? Why not then would one not buy it out themselves, spend $180 to detail it, and sell it for the cost one has into it just to break even, rather than take a loss?
Regarding the buyout on the Lexus, I think it was $30k or so, I will check in the AM.
Re: 'below invoice', MSRP vs OTD vs INVOICE, who/where do I get INVOICE numbers with all options as specified on the window sticker, and normally, what should one expect to pay off of MSRP, if at all (I'd assume it's about supply, demand, desirability, etc., correct?)
Anyway, my wife just came to me with these facts:
For the new Lexus:
$599x36mo=$21,564 (no Camry involved)
$619X48mo=$29,712 (w/Camry turned in to them)
$629X42mo=$26,418 (w/Camry turned in to them)
So, if I owe 4x$596.22=$2,384.88 + 3k mileage over the 48k allowed (as of today), which is .15x3,000=$450 for a walk away of $2,838.88 to get out of the Camry lease, I'm getting charged $5,309 (48 mo) $2,016 (42 mo) over and above the $2,808 payoff?
Sounds like they are not doing me any favors.
So, without further headaches, bottom lime is if I keep the Camry until April, buy it for $13,526, flip it for the same amount, and deal for a RX450h at that time, is $599/36mo a good deal, and what would be the total out of pocket expected.
I know this is long winded, but man, it is not so super simple when one is a novice.
#2086 of 2667 Re: RX 450h-36mo-15kyr-$600 mo. lease wanted [guruuno]
Dec 22, 2010 (10:14 pm)
I did not take the Camry to Carmax, I was not aware of that process. Please elaborate as to the benefits, etc.
It is a very simple process.. You take your camry to the toyota dealerships in your area. Tell them you want to sell your car to them. They will ask your lease termination amount (toyota financial will be able to tell you. or if you use the online account to pay for the monthly lease, the lease payoff amount should be right in your account. The dealership can find that out also very easily.). Normally they will at least trying to make you pay 1000-2000 to get rid of the car regardless of how much your car is worth. However you can take the car to multiple dealears and look at the price of similar car they listed in their own inventory to get a gauge on what kind of price they can offer you. Make sure you factor into the work that they need to perform on the car and profit margin for the dealer. The best way is to get multiple bids and go from there. We just did that for our 08 LS460. The initial offer is 35K and wifey negotiate up to 39.5 (our payoff amount.. so we just walk away from the car). She called 7 dealers in our area and 3 showed interested and she took the cars to two of the dealers (the last one called back too late since he is in Lexus auction). The dealer turned around and CPO the car (getting an extended warranty from Lexus) and listed it at 48K... CPO probably cost the dealer a couple thousand and they also need to replace the tires.. So dealer cost for the car is about 42.5K and they are asking for 48K.. My guess is that they will find a buyer at 45-46K... It is always good to seperate the trade in and buying a new car. The delear that is willing to pay top dollars for your used car is not necessary the same delear who is deperate for new car sales. So you are cheating yourselves by combining the deals into one. Wifey did her calling and negotiation in 24 hours... But we live in Bay area where there is a lot of dealers around so life it easier..-
#2087 of 2667 Re: RX 450h-36mo-15kyr-$600 mo. lease wanted [guruuno]
Dec 23, 2010 (1:36 pm)
Annoying, I wrote a reply and this stupid browser somehow deleted it.
So my suggestion is:
1. Get the payment for 36 months with turning in the camry.
2. figure out the pre-tax payment for both scenarios 36 months.
3. Check the difference in payments and divide by 30. This is the rough number of thousands they are charging you to take the camry.
4. Alternatively you could get more exact and plug all the numbers into an online lease calc and fiddle with the trade-in numbers till you find the right payment.
Now, if a carmax is nearby, take it to them get a quote. Itís good for 7 days/200 miles. They can check with Toyota to get a pay off quote for you as well. (And upon further review, i guess Carmax doesn't operate in NJ or NY so this point could be moot.) But the thing topgun said about checking with toyota dealers ect. is the same idea. But you need to know the lexus dealer is charging you before you can make any decisions. (And they are trying really hard to deguise it by changing the terms on you if taking te car.)
Now compare the difference. Of what the dealer is charging you and what it would cost you to unload it at carmax.
I can almost guarantee you Carmax will offer more than any other brick and mortar dealer. Itís strange, but if you really think about it, it makes sense. But thatís a different discussion.
The analysis you are doing is flawed in that itís not taking into account the different residual values of the car at 36, 42, and 48 months. Sure the sum of payments are higher, but your right to buy the car at each point will be at a different price point. Some of each lease payment goes towards paying the ďdepreciationĒ so at 48 months, your buyout would be probably around 3k lower than at 36 months.
Hope that makes sense.
REVISED TO FIX MY ASSUMPTIONS!
I did a quick calc assuming the residual for a 48 mo lease drops to 50% vs. 56% on a 36 month lease. (an assumption based on other numbers i've seen.) Then they are charging you about $2,850 to take the camry. If that's true they should be able to do the 36 month using your terms for $689 a month. Seems like a steep hitÖ.
Should be an easy call the to the dealer to verify.
It should not matter to the dealer what the length of the lease is. Eitherway they sell the car.
#2088 of 2667 Help with RX 450h lease value
Dec 23, 2010 (1:38 pm)
Hi. In NJ I am being quoted 49607 on MSRP of 54104.
I have to pay taxes and fees of 2235, but otherwise no money down.
3 year 12k miles 31380 residual quote is $707/month.
3 year 15k miles 30298.40 residual quote is 737/month.
25 cents a mile overage.
Would appreciate help if this is a good deal or not. Thanks so much for helping out those of us who can't grasp the concept.
#2089 of 2667 Re: Help with RX 450h lease value [hamm3r]
Dec 23, 2010 (2:10 pm)
Oh, and he said he didn't know what the money factor was.
#2090 of 2667 Re: Help with RX 450h lease value [hamm3r]
Dec 23, 2010 (2:20 pm)
Assuming this is a 2011:
based on those numbers, they are padding the money factor.
Assuming you are paying all fees and taxes up front. (make sure you aren't paying any cap cost reduction.)
they are giving your a MF of .0019. (assumes a 7% tax rate)
The Dec to remember event for a 3 yr. 10k mile lease is 0.0015 according to the forum host car_man.
That's quite a bit of pad. other's in NJ have been quoted .0017 for a 15k mile lease. (which also seems to jive with what car_man has said.)
I might shop around a little. if you are tier 1+, they should offer at least a MF of .0017. The disount you are getting seems in the ball park with others i think. I'm in socal, so it's a different market.
#2091 of 2667 The Deal is Done
Dec 23, 2010 (3:14 pm)
OK, after using the help here, this is what I negotiated:
$629/mo for 36 months with $3,000 down and $1,865.50 fees, etc.
And they took the Camry with no hassle! (no mileage hit, no nothing)
If I add $1,000 and make it $4,000 down, it's back to $599/mo w/tax included!
Seems like the deal to me, picking it up in the AM.
Thanks all again
#2092 of 2667 Re: Help with RX 450h lease value [cartman13]
Dec 23, 2010 (7:58 pm)
Thanks for the info. I have some questions:
1. By tier 1+ do you mean credit rating? If so, I'm good.
2. I downloaded an app to help me figure this stuff out. Question, when inputting the cap cost/negotiated price, should I include the tax in the cap cost and use $0 as down payment? Since they will collect the tax up front, this is confusing me.
When I negotiate, is it correct to ask them to either lower the money factor to .0017 or alternately lower the base to 49,000? (I am more interested in the 15k) I'm doing this via email (if that makes a difference).