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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Infiniti G37 Lease Questions
4693 messages, Last post on Nov 30, 2009 at 8:16 PM
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Replying to: nickr1 (May 20, 2009 7:40 pm) This is something that bugs me as well with manufacturers. Maybe eight years ago, $2k for a nav system was fairly priced, but nowadays, when you see a "base" model already having a 7-inch LCD screen used for radio displays, offering a $2k GPS option, there's clearly a healthy profit margin in there. That said, at least with the G37, you get not only a GPS, but a very good one by all accounts, including lane guidance and 3-d building graphics, XM traffic integration, a rearview camera monitor for backing up, voice recognition for common functions, and the 9GB "music box" for storing thousands of songs. So, yes, they're still making a profit on it, but I don't think the $2k price tag is so egregious for what you're getting. |
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| These were priced the same as 3 yr leases not too long ago, is this trend dead? I need to upgrade my 08 to the G37 but with the Direct injection around the corner I dont was to tie myself in for 3 years. | |
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Replying to: nickr1 (May 20, 2009 8:29 pm) When I said "the only money I put down was the $500 loyalty credit from Infiniti" that means I didn't pay any other down payments. So yes, all the other charges (except the DMV fees), the $595 bank fee, 8.625% sales tax and $45 doc fee were folded into my monthly payment. So my monthly payment was $539.39 for 39 months on a 10K miles per year lease. The April 2009 residual percentage on a 39 month 10K miles per year lease was 58%. When I say I paid $680 out the door, that was my first payment of $539.39 plus the DMV fees. The $500 loyalty credit is worked into the lease calculation. They don't give you a $500 check for the loyalty credit to use as you wish. You must apply it to the new lease so they include the $500 loyalty credit in the lease calculation. So on paper it looks like I paid $1180 (first payment + DMV fees + an additional $500 down payment) but I only paid $680 out of my pocket because of the $500 loyalty credit. So like I said the $500 loyalty credit was used as a cap cost reduction. Yes, you're correct, my total cost for leasing for 39 months is $21,536.21 if you count the $500 loyalty credit as part of the cost. I'm only paying $21,036.21 out my pocket. It looks like people should probably get slightly better monthly payments for leases this month because the loyalty credit was increased to $1000. On a 39 month 10k miles per year lease, I believe the residuals dropped by 1% to 57% and the money factor is lower as well which offsets the lower residual so once you factor in the increase in loyalty credit, I think the monthly payment will be lower. |
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Replying to: nickr1 (May 20, 2009 7:40 pm) Why is almost every lease deal so different? For several reasons. First the monthly payment in the lease depends on the MSRP of the car, negotiated price, money factor and residual percentage. When car dealers advertise leases, you always have to pay taxes and fees up front and some sort of down payment to bring the payment down to the nice round number they advertise. IMHO, that's how dealers take advantage of consumers. I always tell my friends, I can lease a $100K Mercedes for $300/month with a big enough down payment. The only way to figure out if you got a good deal or not is to get the negotiated price (i.e. cap cost) used in the lease calulation. If you read the edmunds.com leasing guide, it tells you to negotiate the selling price of the car (i.e. cap cost) because that's the only number you can change in the lease calulation. The MSRP, term (length of the lease), money factor and residual percentage are fixed numbers. Of course the money factor is determined by your credit score but you or the dealer can't do anything to change it. Why are "special offers" (lease prices) on Infiniti dealer sites different than special offers on Infiniti's site? Why is there no standardization? Again, this is based on how much of a discount each dealer is willing to give on a particular car. Many of these special offers apply to a specific car they have in stock or a car equipped a certain options. Also, individual dealers can make their own deals with banks to lease cars with different leasing terms from Infiniti Financial Services. If a dealer gets a bank to do the lease instead of Infiniti Financial Services, they can usually use the cash incentives that Infiniti was only offering on purchases such as the $2K marketing support cash to dealer on the G37 sedan/coupe right now. When you lease through a bank instead of IFS, the bank is buying the car and leasing it to you so any incentives that Infiniti is offering on purchases could be passed onto you by the dealer. Depending on the residual percentage and money factor offered by the bank, that could make it cheaper to lease through a bank but banks will be much more strict about the condition of the car at the end of the lease than IFS so you might have to pay for any minor scratches to the car that IFS would forgive. Why does everyone always ask the same question: "is this a good deal?" Doesn't even one person unequivocally know what a good lease price is? I think this is because people don't want to take the time to do the research and calculate the lease payment themselves. The real simple way to find out if you got a good deal or not is to know the selling price (i.e. cap cost) used in the lease calculation. You can't simply use monthly payment as a determination because obviously the more money you put down, the lower the monthly payment. Does this confusion, or complexity, put the dealer at a great advantage? In other words, are dealers happy no one knows what a good lease deal is? Yes, most people don't take the time to educate themselves or understand how lease calculations work so I think dealers are happy that people can't tell what a good lease deal is. Ads that say $299/month or $399/month to lease a certain vehicle sound good until you look at how much money you have to put down. Like I said, you can make your monthly payment as low as you want with enough of a down payment. Isn't the total price you pay the dealer, down payment plus total monthly payments the only number that really matters? How does any other number or percentage or MF or residual or even total cost of the car help anyone understand anything if you have no intention of buying the car when the lease ends? Add your total down payment to 39 months of payments, that's it, it doesn't need to be more complicated than that, right? So why does it sound soooo complicated when you read this forum. No, because your total cost will always be lower the more money you put down because you're financing less money in the lease so you're paying less interest over the term of the lease with a larger down payment. It all depends on how much money you want to put into the lease up front. The cheapest way to lease would be to pay all the money up front and not borrow anything but that's very risky and I'll explain why. When you're leasing, the leasing company owns the car, not you. So if the car it totalled or stolen, your insurance company pays off the amount owned on the car to the leasing company (i.e. IFS or bank), not you. If you pay the taxes up front, you don't get that money back either. That's why I pay as little money up front as possible including folding the taxes into the lease because I don't want to risk losing that money. Obviously I'll be paying more interest over the term of the lease which will make my total cost higher but I don't risk losing my money if my car is totalled or stolen. I can offset that by taking the money that I didn't put into the car and putting it in a CD or money money account or whatever and earn some interest income back. Plus I have access to my cash if I ever need it in an emergency. Isn't it true that you can be quoted a low msrp and low invoice but still be snaked by a high lease payment? If so, then doesn't that mean the price of the car is often or sometimes used as a manipulation to get the down and the monthly higher? In other words, the quoted price almost doesn't matter and isn't the guiding force of your total lease payments, it's your total paid to the dealer that matters. That's completely wrong. The money factor and residual percentage are set by the bank or leasing company based on the term (i.e. 24 or 36 or 39 or 48 months). Those are fixed. The MSRP of the car is also fixed because that is printed on the window sticker. The only number in the lease calculation that can change is the negotiated price (i.e. sale price/cap cost) of the car. Sometimes payments are higher because dealers add it high fees like $300 in documentation fees or other things like glass protection into the amount you're financing. Again, the total amount paid to the dealer will be lowest if you don't borrow anything because you'll be paying no interest so you can't use that to evaluate a lease deal. Then the best way to lease would be to pay everything up front. Again, that's putting your money at risk.
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Replying to: nickr1 (May 20, 2009 7:40 pm) I like the 09 G37x coupe but for the life of me I can't figure out the lease price even after reading all these posts. I also don't understand why the Nav is so incredibly expensive, aren't great portable Nav's around $200? Sorry, I guess I have sticker shock on that one, someday soon though I bet car dealers will start offering Navs at half the price of what it is now, you know, as an incentive to buy their brand. I mean really, how can just a Nav cost nearly 20% of the entire 39 month lease cost? 20% of the entire 39 month lease cost for a nav option doesn't sound right. When you're leasing, you're essentially paying for the depreciation of the car. Let's say the residual percentage on your lease is 57%, then you'll be paying 43% of the cost of any options you add in the lease (assuming that you're getting the same percentage discount off MSRP on a car without navigation as a car with navigation). So you should be financing 43% of the $2150 navigation option in the lease which is about $925. That shouldn't add 20% to the cost of the lease. I'm simplifying things in the lease calculation but if you were to run the numbers for a car with and without navigation (assuming you get the same percentage discount off of MSRP), it shouldn't be that much money even with the extra interest that you'll be paying for the extra cost. |
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Replying to: sam_k (May 21, 2009 8:16 am) 39 months 10,000 miles a year msrp: $44,826 Inv: $41,160 price: $42,185 (price dealer offered) Down: $2,900 includes DMV, doc fees, sales tax, bank fee, first month fee Monthly: $566 total paid to dealer over life of lease: $24,974 This deal is almost exactly what Edmunds says it is, and what others are paying. I have not yet tried to negotiate, but when I do where and how do you think I can make some reductions in price? Thanks. |
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Replying to: nickr1 (May 21, 2009 1:39 pm) I would also ask to see the breakdown of the lease calculation from their system because your monthly payment seems a little high considering you're paying the taxes and bank fee up front. You should be able to plug the numbers in the edmunds.com lease calculator and come up with the same monthly payment. If you live in NY, the way tax is calculated on a lease is different from other states. NY state requires the taxes up front so the tax in the lease payment is calculated a little differently when you include the tax in the monthly payment so the edmunds.com lease payment calculator will come up with a slightly different monthly payment amount.
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I am trying to get a 39 month lease on the G37X at 12,000 miles/year. I want the premium, tech, and navi packages. I am not putting anything down aside from first month's payment. What is my expected price? I am in the DC area. Am I going to come closer to $500 per month, as opposed to $600? Also, is it worth waiting until next month for a better price? Thanks! This forum never fails... |
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Replying to: sam_k (May 21, 2009 2:33 pm)
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Replying to: nickr1 (May 21, 2009 4:29 pm) You can ask the dealer to show you the screen or a printout from the Infiniti system showing the lease calculation. If it's not obvious what each number represents, he should be able to explain each number on the printout. Again, the total lease price (as you called it) will fluctuate depending on how much you put down because the more you put down the less you're borrowing and therefore the less interest you'll pay. The only way to negotiate a lease is based on the selling price of the car (i.e. the capitalized cost of the car going into the lease calculation). You need to get that total lease price or total lease cost out of your head because that's not the way you should be evaluating your lease deal. Think of it this way. Let's say you were going to buy a car for $40K. If you put down $10K and take out a $30K loan, you'll pay more interest than if you put down $15K and take out a $25K loan because the more you borrow, the more interest you'll pay. The same rule applies to leasing so obviously the total amount you spend on the car will be higher if you borrow more money. The dealer should also disclose all the costs to you in detail and then you should be able to calculate the same lease payment as him. If you don't want to get ripped off you need to take the time and understand how leases are calculated. Here's a link to Edmunds.com lease calculator. http://www.edmunds.com/apps/calc/CalculatorController?pmtcalAction=lease_calc I actually created my own lease calculator Excel spreadsheet and put it in my Blackberry so I could verify the monthly payment that each dealer was telling me based on the figures they told me were going into the lease calculation. You only need 7 figures to calculate a lease - MSPR of the car, negotiated price (i.e. cap cost), additional costs in the lease (i.e. fees, taxes, etc), down payment amount (i.e. cap cost reduction), term (length of the lease), money factor and residual percentage. You can only influence the negotiated price and you determine the down payment. The rest of those numbers cannot be changed. You should read Edmunds.com articles on leasing at the following link. http://www.edmunds.com/advice/leasing/articles/index.html You should especially read this article on how to spot a good lease deal. http://www.edmunds.com/advice/leasing/articles/102826/article.html |
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