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Honda S2000, Car Leasing, Convertible
#68 of 270 Re: New lease incentive on S2000 on Honda website [dwynne]
Apr 06, 2007 (9:55 am)
I have to know what you do. I'm not 100% confident in my lease calculator not to mention I'm still learning the terminology. I have to keep going back and forth on my references. Are you using a web site for the lease calculations? If so, would you mind posting it? I'm using leaseguide.com.
The local dealer here is selling the S at invoice - $2000. Somehow I've got two salespeople working with me and they are giving me different numbers. One person said OTD of 30,100 and the other said 31,694 (numbers are approximate). Does TTL of about $2100 sound about right?
If you check at leasecompare, they will do the same car for the same price for 36 months, 0.00258 MF, but $19,165 residual (55%). A lower rate, but $1,045 less residual so the net is your payment would be higher ($389). This is a case of the real world residual being less than the captive one.
Going through Leasecompare.com, is it that straightforward? Sounds too easy.
#69 of 270 Re: New lease incentive on S2000 on Honda website [accelerator]
Apr 06, 2007 (10:04 am)
what I am trying to figure out is what kind of incentive or rebate is Honda actually offering to the dealers?
is this just Honda's way of saying they will sell the car at or near invoice....or is there actual MONEY on the table goign to the dealers? i've seen several posts here where people have leased/purchased S2000s at invoice..or barely over it..and there was NO dealer cash. if all of a sudden Honda is kicking in more money to move the cars, that should simplyb e money in OUR pocket...and the bottom line will adjust down by exactly how much cash Honda is adding to the pot.
i emailed one local dealer and got a BS email that the "lease special" doesn't apply to California.. yeah sure... what jerks.
walk into a car dealer and ask how much and they will lie, cheat, steal and jerk you around as far as they can.
negotiate hard, only deal via email/phone/fax... and NEVER set foot on their stinkin' lot until you have hard copy printouts from 2-3 dealers...and can really play them off one another. once they sense you are SERIOSU and will pull the trigger..and they know you have other alternatives...to go buy the car cheaper..you will quickly find otu what the REAL bottom line is...
#70 of 270 Re: New lease incentive on S2000 on Honda website [23109vc]
Apr 06, 2007 (10:11 am)
i am cross shopping the RX8 and S2000....i like the S MORE as i know it has more performance and i really want a convertible... but the RX8 has been a cheaper car...some were selling at the 27k price range... and so the S wa always more money...and this is going to be a toy car....totally unnecessary...so every cent i can save might make it more likely to convince the wifey to pull the trigger on it.
I have both, actually on my 2nd S2000 so what do you want to know?
The 8 backseat is usuable by small folks and tighter for anyone larger - the seat behind the driver is not usable at all if the drive has the seat well back. The trunk is a bit larger, but the small, oddly shaped opening limits access. The rotary is SMOOTH and gladly revs to redline, but drinks oil (by design) and drinks LOTS of premium gas. With a VooDoo knob the 6 speed tranny is just sweet - actually BETTER than the S2000 with the same knob installed. Looks "richer" inside than the S. Resale value seriously hurls (hey, they can't sell them NEW so you know used ones are worth little). Reliability is a serious concern - there is even a recall that may replace the entire engine. The stereo is not much, even with the Bose in my GT. Odd set up means no easy/cheap way to upgrade.
The S2000 is just two seats, decent trunk room, little cabin storage space and more of a "raw" sports car. Needs premium too, but sips in comparison. Mostly Honda reliable - much more so that the 8. Resale value was super strong, now just above average (I would say). The best part - the top goes down. Standard DIN stereo is not much, but can be easily upgraded (high powered Pio MP3 deck and Polk components in the doors = nice sound). I have have a Modifry control gizmo so the dash stereo controls work the Pio deck.
I get 14-15 mpg commuting in the RX-8, around 19-20mpg on a trip (fill up, drive Interstate, fill up).
I get 23-24 mph commuting in the S2000, around 27-28 on a trip (all with the top down).
My commute is about 25 miles round trip and about 1/2 stop and go and 1/2 freeway. The 394hp M5 I used to have got around 13-15mpg on the same commute - the 8 is not NEARLY as large or powerful but slurps the gas at the same rate.
Trade on an 05 S with 10k miles is around $23,625. An 05 8 with GT pack and Navi (like mine) with 10k miles has a trade in of around $17,925. The original price on both was about the same.
If you go to leasecompare.com and check out a lease, they use ALG (industry standard) residuals. A 3 year lease on a new 2007 RX-8 GT shows a residual of 48%. The same lease term on a new 2007 S2000 shows 55%. This is a large difference - the leasing industry has a LOT more faith in the S retaining value than the RX-8.
In another example, my captive (Mazda Credit) lease residual is LESS on a 24 month lease than the current captive (Honda Credit) lease on a 36 month lease! Honda thinks their car will be worth more in 36/36k than Mazda does in 24/24k!
All that said, Mazda is desperate to get rid of the 8s so you can get a deep discount on them. But Honda is pretty hot to rid themselves of S2000s as well, but not has hard-pressed as Mazda is (and has been for several years).
If I had to pick one, no question I keep the S2000. I love mine. I like the 8 as well and I am thinking of buying mine at lease end - IF I can talk MAC down on the buyout price. Current trade is a good bit less than the buyout so it is not a "good deal" at the stated price.
#71 of 270 Getting a lease quote right now
Apr 06, 2007 (10:19 am)
Ok guys, I just called my local dealer (where I leased my '05 S2K, which I dont have anymore) and my salesman didnt even know the S2K lease special started today, funny huh. So I told him to work some numbers, and give me the best, final price he can, knowing that I am a returning customer. I also told him I want the price of the car reduced, and I want a quote for a 3yr and 4yr lease with 0 down, and super preferred tier. He said I should have an answer within an hour or two...I'll keep you guys posted.
#72 of 270 Re: New lease incentive on S2000 on Honda website [accelerator]
Apr 06, 2007 (10:37 am)
I used LeaseIt! on my Palm Pilot and also an online calculator on a web page of mine.
I don't know OTD from nothing. I always ask for quotes that include the car, destination, and any dealer doc/prep fees. I can figure the rest for myself.
Keep in mind for a lease your OTD does not mean anything anyway, since for most of us that taxes on leases are not the same on a purchase.
Invoice shows as $31,604 - $2,000 = $29,604. If you plug that price into leasecompare you get a 36/36k lease for $440+tax with just $440+tax due at signing (buy default they roll the lease acq fee and $99 doc fee into the lease). With an extra $3,600 due at signing ($3931 total due at signing, to make it like the Honda deal) the payments would be $331 per month plus tax.
It is that easy, I have leased with them a few times when the numbers said it was a better deal and had a great experience. I have also sold a couple of off-lease cars through them to avoid the double tax problem - again with nice results.
If you plug your price into the Honda deal, I come up with $416.09 payment + tax with nothing due at signing other than first payment. This is VS the $440 from leasecompare, if I did the numbers right. If you put down an extra $3,600 the payments would drop to $306.19 + tax (VS $331). That higher residual more than offsets the slightly lower MF.
If you were going to do the deal NOW, I would do it at $2k under invoice and use the Honda MF and residual. If for some reason you can't, then you could do the deal via leasecompare and still come out OK.
In contrast, lets say they had a 1.9% deal but not $2k, if you lease at invoice and 1.9% your payment would be $376 per month + tax with just $376 + tax due at signing. If you put another $3,600 down (to make it like the other deals) it would drop to $274 per month. The old special called for less down and a payment of $299 per month + tax.
So paying $2k more and getting a cheaper lease MF would net a better deal - IF they bring that deal back.
#73 of 270 Re: Getting a lease quote right now [rd1ofakind]
Apr 06, 2007 (10:39 am)
As I have shown, there is no "lease special" - it is the same old high money factor that have been running for a while. It is a PUBLISHED deal and does factor in the dealer taking money off MSRP without you haggling AND factors in the (it seems) $2,000 in factory to dealer money.
Others have state they were offered the car for invoice less the $2k - and we know what the lease numbers are now. Will that be what your folks give you? We will see.
#74 of 270 Re: New lease incentive on S2000 on Honda website [dwynne]
Apr 06, 2007 (10:51 am)
You just provided me with confidence in my lease calc (and I'll need to download that app for my palm). I ran the same scenario (MF vs. $2000 incentive) and came to the same conclusion.
#75 of 270 Re: New lease incentive on S2000 on Honda website [dwynne]
Apr 06, 2007 (10:51 am)
which one is faster? i get the impression that both cornering, and in a straight line, the S2000 is quite a bit quicker. the 0-60 times are close, but if you look at 0-100 or quarter mile, it looks like once you hit third gear the S2000 will walk away from the rX8.
which one is more PURE FUN to just get in and blast around in? you think the S2000 is better or the RX8 smoothness is better?
the RX8 is probably a softer ride, perhaps better for a daily driver...while the S2000 is the one to get if you want a car to just have FUN.
i have two kids..plus #3 coming. we have a large SUV as the main family car...and our second car (which I drive now) is a large sedan that could fit the whole family + stuff if we needed it to. i like having two cars that will haul the whole family. i am tempted to sell/trade the second car (only wroth maybe $5k) to fund the next car. only problem is..given my family size...even though we have one good/new/large SUV...having a two seater as our second car would be kind of stupid. i'd never be able to take anyone anywhere..... the RX8 *might* work...it wouldn't fit 3 kids..but it would fit one or two easily..so it would have somewhat more practicaly than the S2000 but not a lot.
Dennis - do you have kids? do you think the RX8 really is all that more practical than a two seater..or do you find the rear seats/trunk are basically as useless as the S2000? am i mistaken for thinking an RX8 woulc be capable as a "second" car for a person with kids?
part of me thinks the RX8 migth be more usable...but then again...i tried to fit a carseat in teh back seat and it would only fit if the seat was all the way forward..which mean i could fit it on the passenger side..with NO front passenger...but no way i could fit wife, and two kids in the back if one was in a big car seat/carrier thing...
so i'm ultimately thinking that i'll probably wind up keeping my $5k beater as the to/from work car, spare vehicle...and whatever i wind up buying will be a third car/fun car for me...and if that's teh real case..then it's an S2000 all the way...as long as the cost to lease/buy is similar to the RX8.
one reason i had looked at the 8 was that tey were a lot cheaper. you coudl get a loaded up model for $26-27k...and the S was at least 30k.... if i sold my $5k car..that would make the RX8 really like a 20-21k car... in net dollars...but that's only if i made the 8 the second "family" car and the more i read about it the less i think it would really be able to serve that purpose...
both of them are really toy cars..very little practicality...and if i get somethign for pure fun, no doubts the S2000 is better suited for that.
thanks for all that info!!
#76 of 270 Re: New lease incentive on S2000 on Honda website [23109vc]
Apr 06, 2007 (10:55 am)
the $5k car would actually net more since you could drop the insurance, maintenance cost, etc. Depending on your age of kids though, the $5k car might make a good first car of your oldest kid. Especially being a large sedan from a safety standpoint, let along with the price of gas today, they wont be driving too far!
#77 of 270 Re: New lease incentive on S2000 on Honda website [accelerator]
Apr 06, 2007 (11:07 am)
you mean quit paying maintenance/insurance on the $5k car...effectively making having THREE cars MORe expensive due to having to pay for THREE ot two? i know.
that's why i've toyed with the idea of dumping my sedan and getting an RX8. it's not as fun/fast as an S2000..but i *might* be able to make it work for my needs.
my oldest is 5...so no need to save a car for him yet...
i don't take the kids to school, and they aren't in daycare. wife is stay at home mom. so i only need wheels to/from work. i don't really *need* a second car to haul the family..we have a brand new MDX for that...it would just be nice to have a second car that had SOME practicality...
but honstly...if I did just say F'it...and sold my sedan..and got an S2000 as the second car..it's not like we would have problems... daddy drives his fun to to work/back.. mommy has a new MDX to haul the kids which we all drive in together after work and on weekends.
i'd just be in trouble if teh SUV had a dead battery and the wife was in a rush to take the kids somewhere...unlikely scenario...but could happen.
plus...i don't really need 3 cars. it's more to maintain, insure, etc. and while i make good money...i am not made of it and having a third "toy" car would mean less money for other things that really are more urgent...i could really rationalize a new second car..no maintenance, no repair bills.... just a car payment.... but a third car is a harder sell..not just on the wife but on me.. don't really need it.
thanks for the info on S vs. RX Dennis. i think i'd much rather have an S2000...but i was looking at the 8 as it would be sort of a compromise. small, nice handling, fun to drive, high revving..a lot lie the S in some respects...only no top down but has back seats that would make it somewhat practical....as opposed to a totally impractical two seater roadster... hmmm...