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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Honda S2000 Lease Questions
270 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2008 at 5:20 AM
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Replying to: dwynne (Apr 06, 2007 7:26 am) Are the chances of a lower lease rate AND the incentive likely? If I waited, it would help with my negative equity of a $1000 (squeezing in an extra payment). As for your advice about Question 2, that is brilliant! I think I'm too close to the situation and just want the car so I'm not thinking clearly.  Thanks for bringing me back down to earth. I'm sincere, not being a smart alec
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i noticed there is now a lease special advertised on Honda's website. i checked a few days ago and it was NTO there, so this is something new. for those of you who have been shopping this vehicle - how does this lease stack up to past deals on the car? assuming one took advantage of this deal - what are the MF's and residual values...and is it a good deal? i am cross shopping the RX8 and S2000....i like the S MORE as i know it has more performance and i really want a convertible... but the RX8 has been a cheaper car...some were selling at the 27k price range... and so the S wa always more money...and this is going to be a toy car....totally unnecessary...so every cent i can save might make it more likely to convince the wifey to pull the trigger on it. how is this new lease deal? is it really agood deal or not?
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Replying to: 23109vc (Apr 06, 2007 7:54 am) FEATURED LEASE: Closed-end lease for 2007 S2000 Manual Transmission (Model AP2147ENW) for $349.00 per month for 36 months with a $2,999.00 capitalized cost reduction available to customers who qualify for the AHFC Super Preferred credit tier. Other rates/tiers are available under this offer. $3,943.00 total due at lease signing (includes first month's payment, AHFC up front acquisition fee, capitalized cost reduction, security deposit. Security deposit waived in featured lease example. Total net capitalized cost and base monthly payment does not include tax, license, title, registration, documentation fees, options, insurance and the like). Not all buyers may qualify. I don't know how to read this. Can someone put this in plain English for us? This says I'd have to put down $4000 cash? Is this assuming the buyer leases the car at msrp price, invoice or what? The way I read it is that if someone with stellar credit applies that there is a $3000 taken off the top? |
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Replying to: accelerator (Apr 06, 2007 7:42 am) I love my 05 S and loves the 01 S I had before, but both have been leases. When I compared the lease VS buy it was a no-brainer to lease first, then buy later if I wanted to. On the 2nd one if they had not had a cheap lease deal, I MIGHT have just financed it - but more likely I would have just purchased the 01 off of lease and kept driving it. Dennis
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Replying to: dwynne (Apr 06, 2007 8:11 am) Did you see the lease promo anounced today???? Once I understand it, then I may be driving a new S this weekend! 
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Replying to: accelerator (Apr 06, 2007 8:04 am) FEATURED LEASE: Closed-end lease for 2007 S2000 Manual Transmission (Model AP2147ENW) for $349.00 per month for 36 months with a $2,999.00 capitalized cost reduction available to customers who qualify for the AHFC Super Preferred credit tier. Other rates/tiers are available under this offer. $3,943.00 total due at lease signing (includes first month's payment, AHFC upfront acquisition fee, capitalized cost reduction, security deposit. Security deposit waived in featured lease example. Total net capitalized cost and base monthly payment does not include tax, license, title, registration, documentation fees, options, insurance and the like). Not all buyers may qualify. Subject to limited availability. Through 4/30/2007, to approved lessees by American Honda Finance Corp. Closed end lease for 2007 S2000 Manual Transmission vehicles (Model AP2147ENW), for well qualified lessees. Not all lessees will qualify. Higher lease rates apply for lessees with lower credit ratings. MSRP $34,845.00 (includes destination) less the suggested dealer contribution resulting in actual net capitalized cost $27,922.46. Dealer contribution may vary and could affect actual lease payment. Taxes, license, title fees, options and insurance extra. Total monthly payments $12,564.00. Option to purchase at lease end $20,210.10. Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and 15 cents/mi. over 12,000 miles/year for vehicles with MSRP less than $30,000, but for vehicles with MSRP of $30,000 or more, mileage cost is 20 cents/mi. over 12,000 miles/year. See dealer for complete details. So the residual is $20,210.10 which is 58% of MSRP - so we know that. The net cap cost (the amount the lease is based on) is $27,922.46. Knowing the residual, term, payment ($349), and net cap we can work backwards to get the money factor. With my lease calculator this solves to 0.00280 money factor or 6.72% rate. Note that the last MF and residual I saw (in January) was 0.00275 and 58% - so this is the SAME DEAL (actually a little worse). The money due at signing breaks down like this: They ask for $3,943.00. $2,999.00 of this goes toward cap cost reduction (a down payment, in other words). There is a $595 lease acquisition fee, $349 first month's payment - the normal $350 refundable security deposit is waived. $2999+$595+$349 = $3943. If we break down the price part, the net cap after your money and the dealer discount is $27,922.46 and $2,999 of that is your money - so your price is $30,991.46 . Invoice looks to be $31,604 so your price is $612.54 under invoice. Edmunds incentive page shows no incentives, but carsdirect shows their price $1,500 under invoice and it has been posted here there is $2,000 in dealer money. So $612 under invoice is not that good of a price. So the rate is high as is the price = so not that hot a deal. Keep in mind this is a SUGGESTED deal - say you get the dealer to drop the price $1,000 more, then you would just pay $1,000 less at signing and still have the $349 payment. Or you could pay nothing at signing and have a larger payment. If you check at leasecompare, they will do the same car for the same price for 36 months, 0.00258 MF, but $19,165 residual (55%). A lower rate, but $1,045 less residual so the net is your payment would be higher ($389). This is a case of the real world residual being less than the captive one. If you did a lease/buy using the Honda deal you would save $40 each month on the lease (plus tax) or $1,440 over the life of the lease (plus tax). At the current capitalone lease buy out rate, the extra $1,045 in residual would cost you $32.87 per month if financed for 36 months (plus tax) or $1,183.32 over the life of the loan. If you financed for 48 months it would be $25.88 per month (plus tax) for 48 months or $1,242.24. So it would APPEAR that taking the higher rate and higher residual (given CURRENT buy out finance rates) you would be a little off. For sure if you did not buy the car at lease end you would be better off. The stellar credit part only applies to the lease deal and MF, not to the residual or discounted price. I think I would wait and see if they sweeten the pot. The 3rd party lease residuals have dropped to more real-world numbers that reflect the loss of retained value of the S2000 (the first few years it was a STRONG residual car and SWEET lease deal). So even getting the car well under invoice your 3rd party numbers are not that good. Even if you deal the price down and take the Honda finance, you still have to put down $3k or more and have a $349+tax payment. The old special was less money down and a $299+tax payment due to its much lower money factor. Run the numbers for yourself, I just did this quick and dirty so may have messed something up  Dennis |
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Replying to: dwynne (Apr 06, 2007 9:34 am) i KNOW peole have been leasing the S2000 for roughly invoice, or barely over it. they aren't selling well AT ALL. now if this "lease special" is really honda kicknig in another 3000 into the pot...then assuming invoice is around 30k...you should be able to get ZERO down and a cap cost of roughly 27k. plus drive offs.... using the MSRP and the residual value - it looks like Honda is using 58% as the residual value. for the 12k/36 lease advertised. the advertised special though assumes that almost $4000 due at signing. that's BS. if Honda is kicking in 3k, and dealers WERE selling at invoice, I don't see why you cant now get them 3k UNDER invoice. i don't know the MF is, but assuming it's what it was been in the past... you are looking at payments around $366 with NOTHING down. put down the $4000 they are askign or, and assume $1000 or so goes to drive offs, and about $3000 more goes to additional cap cost reduction, and you should be more at $268 with tax... or am i just dreaming?? when i leased my MDX it was after seeing an "advertised" lease special on the website..and once i started calling around....i had NO problem getting a better deal than what the website offered...making me thing you can always do better than what honda's website says... i would think you could get that advertised monthly rate but with NO money down. anyone agree/disagree???
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Replying to: dwynne (Apr 06, 2007 9:34 am) I have to know what you do. I'm not 100% confident in my lease calculator not to mention I'm still learning the terminology. I have to keep going back and forth on my references. Are you using a web site for the lease calculations? If so, would you mind posting it? I'm using leaseguide.com. The local dealer here is selling the S at invoice - $2000. Somehow I've got two salespeople working with me and they are giving me different numbers. One person said OTD of 30,100 and the other said 31,694 (numbers are approximate). Does TTL of about $2100 sound about right? If you check at leasecompare, they will do the same car for the same price for 36 months, 0.00258 MF, but $19,165 residual (55%). A lower rate, but $1,045 less residual so the net is your payment would be higher ($389). This is a case of the real world residual being less than the captive one. Going through Leasecompare.com, is it that straightforward? Sounds too easy.
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Replying to: accelerator (Apr 06, 2007 9:55 am) is this just Honda's way of saying they will sell the car at or near invoice....or is there actual MONEY on the table goign to the dealers? i've seen several posts here where people have leased/purchased S2000s at invoice..or barely over it..and there was NO dealer cash. if all of a sudden Honda is kicking in more money to move the cars, that should simplyb e money in OUR pocket...and the bottom line will adjust down by exactly how much cash Honda is adding to the pot. i emailed one local dealer and got a BS email that the "lease special" doesn't apply to California.. yeah sure... what jerks. walk into a car dealer and ask how much and they will lie, cheat, steal and jerk you around as far as they can. negotiate hard, only deal via email/phone/fax... and NEVER set foot on their stinkin' lot until you have hard copy printouts from 2-3 dealers...and can really play them off one another. once they sense you are SERIOSU and will pull the trigger..and they know you have other alternatives...to go buy the car cheaper..you will quickly find otu what the REAL bottom line is...
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Replying to: 23109vc (Apr 06, 2007 7:54 am) I have both, actually on my 2nd S2000 so what do you want to know? The 8 backseat is usuable by small folks and tighter for anyone larger - the seat behind the driver is not usable at all if the drive has the seat well back. The trunk is a bit larger, but the small, oddly shaped opening limits access. The rotary is SMOOTH and gladly revs to redline, but drinks oil (by design) and drinks LOTS of premium gas. With a VooDoo knob the 6 speed tranny is just sweet - actually BETTER than the S2000 with the same knob installed. Looks "richer" inside than the S. Resale value seriously hurls (hey, they can't sell them NEW so you know used ones are worth little). Reliability is a serious concern - there is even a recall that may replace the entire engine. The stereo is not much, even with the Bose in my GT. Odd set up means no easy/cheap way to upgrade. The S2000 is just two seats, decent trunk room, little cabin storage space and more of a "raw" sports car. Needs premium too, but sips in comparison. Mostly Honda reliable - much more so that the 8. Resale value was super strong, now just above average (I would say). The best part - the top goes down. Standard DIN stereo is not much, but can be easily upgraded (high powered Pio MP3 deck and Polk components in the doors = nice sound). I have have a Modifry control gizmo so the dash stereo controls work the Pio deck. I get 14-15 mpg commuting in the RX-8, around 19-20mpg on a trip (fill up, drive Interstate, fill up). I get 23-24 mph commuting in the S2000, around 27-28 on a trip (all with the top down). My commute is about 25 miles round trip and about 1/2 stop and go and 1/2 freeway. The 394hp M5 I used to have got around 13-15mpg on the same commute - the 8 is not NEARLY as large or powerful but slurps the gas at the same rate. Trade on an 05 S with 10k miles is around $23,625. An 05 8 with GT pack and Navi (like mine) with 10k miles has a trade in of around $17,925. The original price on both was about the same. If you go to leasecompare.com and check out a lease, they use ALG (industry standard) residuals. A 3 year lease on a new 2007 RX-8 GT shows a residual of 48%. The same lease term on a new 2007 S2000 shows 55%. This is a large difference - the leasing industry has a LOT more faith in the S retaining value than the RX-8. In another example, my captive (Mazda Credit) lease residual is LESS on a 24 month lease than the current captive (Honda Credit) lease on a 36 month lease! Honda thinks their car will be worth more in 36/36k than Mazda does in 24/24k! All that said, Mazda is desperate to get rid of the 8s so you can get a deep discount on them. But Honda is pretty hot to rid themselves of S2000s as well, but not has hard-pressed as Mazda is (and has been for several years). If I had to pick one, no question I keep the S2000. I love mine. I like the 8 as well and I am thinking of buying mine at lease end - IF I can talk MAC down on the buyout price. Current trade is a good bit less than the buyout so it is not a "good deal" at the stated price. Dennis
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