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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Honda S2000 Lease Questions
270 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2008 at 5:20 AM
You are in the Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum. Your Hosts are car_man & kyfdx
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Question 1 If: Do I have to accept the leasing/finance they offer or can I request a AHFC if AHFC is a better choice for me? I guess a better way to state this is the Manufacturer to Dealer incentive contingent on using a specific leasing/finance company? On post 43, I quoted some numbers the dealer gave me but the residual value was lower through this leasing company (not AHFC) so my payments were higher. If I go through AHFC, the residual value is higher, thus payments are lower. Question 2: After 3 years, if I still love this car and decide to keep it, would the lower residual value be better for me down the road or is the higher residual value still better? I'd have to finance the remaining balance. I don't typically hang on to a car more then 3 years (which is why leasing works for me) but I suspect this car could change that.
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Replying to: accelerator (Apr 06, 2007 5:23 am) Note that you and I can't lease from a lease bank direct (say you hear USBank has a great lease rate on the S2000 you can't go to them and get it) - we have to go through a lease broker or car dealer. My very first lease car the dealer was super (I worked direct with the dealership manager) and he had a program called "LeaseTrack" (I think) and he could bring up the lease offers on any car, any credit rating, and term from a bunch of banks - then give me the one that was the best deal (much better than the captive lease bank at that time). Quite often what the dealer will offer you is what will make THEM the most money, not what will make you the best deal  Question 2 is a good question and it all depends on the rates and residual values (and what the finance rate 3 year in the future will be). In general, you want the lowest possible rate with a realistic residual value. One problem with high residuals is that without GAP coverage the demand for pay out to the lease bank in the event of a loss may exceed the "book value" that insurance is willing to pay. But that is "in general" - you have to look at what you can get now and guess about the future and run the numbers to see how it works out. If it were me, the $2,000 incentive would be nice - but the lease rate is pretty high (leasecompare can do better, last time I checked) - but you might wait one more month and see if Honda has a promo rate for May on the S2000. A 0.9% or 1.9% MF can make for a sweet lease deal. When I have some time I will try to compare the current lease with $2k more off the car VS a cheap rate deal and see how it stacks up for sure.... Dennis
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Replying to: dwynne (Apr 06, 2007 7:26 am) Are the chances of a lower lease rate AND the incentive likely? If I waited, it would help with my negative equity of a $1000 (squeezing in an extra payment). As for your advice about Question 2, that is brilliant! I think I'm too close to the situation and just want the car so I'm not thinking clearly.  Thanks for bringing me back down to earth. I'm sincere, not being a smart alec
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i noticed there is now a lease special advertised on Honda's website. i checked a few days ago and it was NTO there, so this is something new. for those of you who have been shopping this vehicle - how does this lease stack up to past deals on the car? assuming one took advantage of this deal - what are the MF's and residual values...and is it a good deal? i am cross shopping the RX8 and S2000....i like the S MORE as i know it has more performance and i really want a convertible... but the RX8 has been a cheaper car...some were selling at the 27k price range... and so the S wa always more money...and this is going to be a toy car....totally unnecessary...so every cent i can save might make it more likely to convince the wifey to pull the trigger on it. how is this new lease deal? is it really agood deal or not?
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Replying to: 23109vc (Apr 06, 2007 7:54 am) FEATURED LEASE: Closed-end lease for 2007 S2000 Manual Transmission (Model AP2147ENW) for $349.00 per month for 36 months with a $2,999.00 capitalized cost reduction available to customers who qualify for the AHFC Super Preferred credit tier. Other rates/tiers are available under this offer. $3,943.00 total due at lease signing (includes first month's payment, AHFC up front acquisition fee, capitalized cost reduction, security deposit. Security deposit waived in featured lease example. Total net capitalized cost and base monthly payment does not include tax, license, title, registration, documentation fees, options, insurance and the like). Not all buyers may qualify. I don't know how to read this. Can someone put this in plain English for us? This says I'd have to put down $4000 cash? Is this assuming the buyer leases the car at msrp price, invoice or what? The way I read it is that if someone with stellar credit applies that there is a $3000 taken off the top? |
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Replying to: accelerator (Apr 06, 2007 7:42 am) I love my 05 S and loves the 01 S I had before, but both have been leases. When I compared the lease VS buy it was a no-brainer to lease first, then buy later if I wanted to. On the 2nd one if they had not had a cheap lease deal, I MIGHT have just financed it - but more likely I would have just purchased the 01 off of lease and kept driving it. Dennis
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Replying to: dwynne (Apr 06, 2007 8:11 am) Did you see the lease promo anounced today???? Once I understand it, then I may be driving a new S this weekend! 
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Replying to: accelerator (Apr 06, 2007 8:04 am) FEATURED LEASE: Closed-end lease for 2007 S2000 Manual Transmission (Model AP2147ENW) for $349.00 per month for 36 months with a $2,999.00 capitalized cost reduction available to customers who qualify for the AHFC Super Preferred credit tier. Other rates/tiers are available under this offer. $3,943.00 total due at lease signing (includes first month's payment, AHFC upfront acquisition fee, capitalized cost reduction, security deposit. Security deposit waived in featured lease example. Total net capitalized cost and base monthly payment does not include tax, license, title, registration, documentation fees, options, insurance and the like). Not all buyers may qualify. Subject to limited availability. Through 4/30/2007, to approved lessees by American Honda Finance Corp. Closed end lease for 2007 S2000 Manual Transmission vehicles (Model AP2147ENW), for well qualified lessees. Not all lessees will qualify. Higher lease rates apply for lessees with lower credit ratings. MSRP $34,845.00 (includes destination) less the suggested dealer contribution resulting in actual net capitalized cost $27,922.46. Dealer contribution may vary and could affect actual lease payment. Taxes, license, title fees, options and insurance extra. Total monthly payments $12,564.00. Option to purchase at lease end $20,210.10. Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and 15 cents/mi. over 12,000 miles/year for vehicles with MSRP less than $30,000, but for vehicles with MSRP of $30,000 or more, mileage cost is 20 cents/mi. over 12,000 miles/year. See dealer for complete details. So the residual is $20,210.10 which is 58% of MSRP - so we know that. The net cap cost (the amount the lease is based on) is $27,922.46. Knowing the residual, term, payment ($349), and net cap we can work backwards to get the money factor. With my lease calculator this solves to 0.00280 money factor or 6.72% rate. Note that the last MF and residual I saw (in January) was 0.00275 and 58% - so this is the SAME DEAL (actually a little worse). The money due at signing breaks down like this: They ask for $3,943.00. $2,999.00 of this goes toward cap cost reduction (a down payment, in other words). There is a $595 lease acquisition fee, $349 first month's payment - the normal $350 refundable security deposit is waived. $2999+$595+$349 = $3943. If we break down the price part, the net cap after your money and the dealer discount is $27,922.46 and $2,999 of that is your money - so your price is $30,991.46 . Invoice looks to be $31,604 so your price is $612.54 under invoice. Edmunds incentive page shows no incentives, but carsdirect shows their price $1,500 under invoice and it has been posted here there is $2,000 in dealer money. So $612 under invoice is not that good of a price. So the rate is high as is the price = so not that hot a deal. Keep in mind this is a SUGGESTED deal - say you get the dealer to drop the price $1,000 more, then you would just pay $1,000 less at signing and still have the $349 payment. Or you could pay nothing at signing and have a larger payment. If you check at leasecompare, they will do the same car for the same price for 36 months, 0.00258 MF, but $19,165 residual (55%). A lower rate, but $1,045 less residual so the net is your payment would be higher ($389). This is a case of the real world residual being less than the captive one. If you did a lease/buy using the Honda deal you would save $40 each month on the lease (plus tax) or $1,440 over the life of the lease (plus tax). At the current capitalone lease buy out rate, the extra $1,045 in residual would cost you $32.87 per month if financed for 36 months (plus tax) or $1,183.32 over the life of the loan. If you financed for 48 months it would be $25.88 per month (plus tax) for 48 months or $1,242.24. So it would APPEAR that taking the higher rate and higher residual (given CURRENT buy out finance rates) you would be a little off. For sure if you did not buy the car at lease end you would be better off. The stellar credit part only applies to the lease deal and MF, not to the residual or discounted price. I think I would wait and see if they sweeten the pot. The 3rd party lease residuals have dropped to more real-world numbers that reflect the loss of retained value of the S2000 (the first few years it was a STRONG residual car and SWEET lease deal). So even getting the car well under invoice your 3rd party numbers are not that good. Even if you deal the price down and take the Honda finance, you still have to put down $3k or more and have a $349+tax payment. The old special was less money down and a $299+tax payment due to its much lower money factor. Run the numbers for yourself, I just did this quick and dirty so may have messed something up  Dennis |
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Replying to: dwynne (Apr 06, 2007 9:34 am) i KNOW peole have been leasing the S2000 for roughly invoice, or barely over it. they aren't selling well AT ALL. now if this "lease special" is really honda kicknig in another 3000 into the pot...then assuming invoice is around 30k...you should be able to get ZERO down and a cap cost of roughly 27k. plus drive offs.... using the MSRP and the residual value - it looks like Honda is using 58% as the residual value. for the 12k/36 lease advertised. the advertised special though assumes that almost $4000 due at signing. that's BS. if Honda is kicking in 3k, and dealers WERE selling at invoice, I don't see why you cant now get them 3k UNDER invoice. i don't know the MF is, but assuming it's what it was been in the past... you are looking at payments around $366 with NOTHING down. put down the $4000 they are askign or, and assume $1000 or so goes to drive offs, and about $3000 more goes to additional cap cost reduction, and you should be more at $268 with tax... or am i just dreaming?? when i leased my MDX it was after seeing an "advertised" lease special on the website..and once i started calling around....i had NO problem getting a better deal than what the website offered...making me thing you can always do better than what honda's website says... i would think you could get that advertised monthly rate but with NO money down. anyone agree/disagree???
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Replying to: dwynne (Apr 06, 2007 9:34 am) I have to know what you do. I'm not 100% confident in my lease calculator not to mention I'm still learning the terminology. I have to keep going back and forth on my references. Are you using a web site for the lease calculations? If so, would you mind posting it? I'm using leaseguide.com. The local dealer here is selling the S at invoice - $2000. Somehow I've got two salespeople working with me and they are giving me different numbers. One person said OTD of 30,100 and the other said 31,694 (numbers are approximate). Does TTL of about $2100 sound about right? If you check at leasecompare, they will do the same car for the same price for 36 months, 0.00258 MF, but $19,165 residual (55%). A lower rate, but $1,045 less residual so the net is your payment would be higher ($389). This is a case of the real world residual being less than the captive one. Going through Leasecompare.com, is it that straightforward? Sounds too easy.
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