Honda S2000 Lease Questions

Replying to: 23109vc (Jan 14, 2008 9:04 am)

I'm going off of memory here but you should get the idea...
 
There have been arguments here that you can purchase the S at some $500/month and given the low mileage you expect to put on the car, you could sell it in 3-5 years and due to the lower miles than most, be able to sell it for a bit more than it is worth and make back some of the money you spent each month. Now, keep in mind that the S is slowing in sales so it might be harder to sell this in a 7 years as you posted (the car will essentially have been around for 14 years at this point). I ran through the exact debate you are going through right now. For me, money was huge factor and quite frankly, I couldn't afford to buy it unless I extended it for 6 or 7 year purchase which is nuts for the amount of miles I drive in a year. I found a dealership willing to let one go for $27,500 plus TTL. I could afford a 3 year lease but I didn't think I'd be ready to give up the S in 3 years but 4 years, I thought just maybe. After 4 years, if I still love this car, I'll buy it and possible negotiate an even lower price than what the residual is stated to be worth (if Honda is having trouble moving them now, hopefully, they'll have tough time moving them later). If not, I walk away a VERY satisfied driver. I've had my S since may of 2007 and almost 10,000 miles later, I still am very much in love with this car (it is a daily love affair). I'm still on the fence as to whether I"ll buy it or not; it will probably all depend on where I am financially in life in a few more years. If I can afford a 2nd beater car and save the S for the weekends, then I'll buy the S and give it a break from the daily driver duties.
 
On a side note about finances, the difference of my lease and what my purchase car payement would be, I do invest the difference into an emmigrant account which makes about 4.5% right now, which is signifcanntly higher than my interest rate negotiated on my lease rate. So, by leasing, I've also managed to save/invest almost $1700 to date. Over the entire lease term, I'll have invested almost $10,000.

Replies to this message:
• dwynne (Jan 14, 2008 9:51 am)
  • 23109vc (Jan 14, 2008 11:09 am)

Replying to: accelerator (Jan 14, 2008 9:33 am)

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• 23109vc (Jan 14, 2008 11:09 am)

Replying to: dwynne (Jan 14, 2008 9:51 am)

I'm leaning toward the lease.
 
a big factor is that this is a "toy" purchase. you know, with the economy the way it is, part of me even wonders if i would be smarter to just wait 6 months and THEN see what the deals are like. My job, luckily, is public safety/gov't - so while nobody is 100% immune to layoffs/etc... i'm about as insulated as one can get. we may have hiring freezes, or no cost of living adjustments, no raises, but the odds of being let go - at my seniority level - not going to happen. so that being said, i'm comfortable biting off a toy purchase even with the problems we are facing, but i'm more than happy to wait if the deals will get a LOT sweeter.
 
since this is a toy purchase, and while I make a good living, i'm NOT independently wealthy, and do have two other cars to pay for, and 3 little mouths to feed at home - the lower i can keep the monthly costs the better. leasing gives me a lower monthly payment - and like Dennis said, my options are open. if i love the car and don't puta lot of miles on it, and it's worth more than my residual, i can buy it and in the end, i really won't be that worse off than had i bought at the get go.
 
i still think about the rx8, but for a car that is just for ME - the s2k is the way to go. right now, i drive my POS volvo to work, and every mile i drive i think how much i hate the car. it's not really that i hate it, it's that I hate NOT having a fun car. so I "take it out" on my daily driver/commuter which really is a GREAT car for what it is. but having an s2k to drive to/from work - to redline the stink out of it and have the wind in my hair on nice sunny southern CA days - what a blast. of course convincing my wife that I should take off on sat / sun morning for a drive by myself, while she stays at home with 3 kids is gonna be a tough sell. although, once I get her away on a few all day drives, and the kids are left at home with a sitter - I think she'll see how much fun it will be.
 
i don't know about you guys, but to me - driving a sports car is like stress therapy. havin ga fun car to drive, a truly fun car like an s2k or a boxster, an rx8, a miata, or anything that plasters a smile on your face as you listen to the motor, shift the gears - it's a stress reliever, mental health booster - whatever you want to call it.
 
i'd rather to for a 30 minute drive, bang off the rev limiter and get my fix that way instead of going home and having a makers mark.

Replies to this message:
• dwynne (Jan 14, 2008 2:56 pm)
  • 23109vc (Jan 14, 2008 4:16 pm)
    • dwynne (Jan 14, 2008 4:50 pm) and 3 more...

Replying to: bernat (Jan 14, 2008 2:41 pm)

Replies to this message:
• 23109vc (Jan 14, 2008 4:16 pm)
  • dwynne (Jan 14, 2008 4:50 pm)
    • 23109vc (Jan 14, 2008 10:52 pm) and 2 more...

Replying to: dwynne (Jan 14, 2008 2:56 pm)

the money factor is good. I think Honda Finance can set the MF where they want. But the residual - is probably more or less something that gets set based on what their actuarial tables (or whatever you call them) predict the car will be worth. then they fudge around with what kind of a MF they can or are willing to do to get the total $$ of the lease to a level that will still profit something and attract buyers.
 
the deal is pretty good though. if I were READY to pull the trigger, I wouldn't not do it just to try and save another $15-20/month.
 
I may end up having to wait at least 30-60 more days. Honda's website said the current deal is good until 03/03/08.
 
It's anyone's guess if the deal will get BETTER or not after that date. If I had to guess I would suspect it will stay about the same or get slightly better.
 
Just before the end of the year, I was looking at the Acura TL. the MF on that was .00081. the "then" deal expired on 01/03/08. Everyone on the TL forum was guessing whether the deal would end or not after the 3rd. well the residual droped a %, but the MF was reduced even further, so that the effective price you would pay stayed almost exactly the same.
 
if you figure the S2000 sales stink just like the TL sales do, and the S2k is being discontinued...as is the third gen TL, due to the 09 being a redesigned model - my guess is that come 3/8, HOnda will keep the deal the same to move the remaining cars, or it might get better. the residuals may drop, but the MF may drop too. maybe they will make the deal better. maybe not. I'd be VERY suprised if they made the deals WORSE. good luck seling an s2k when a customer comes in expecting the current lease deal, only to be told "oh sorry we cancelled that deal, you'll hae to pay an extra $50/month"...customer will get that sour grapes FU attitude and say bite me and walk. so they probably will keep the deal in place. at least if I was gonna bet on it, that's what I would put my money on.
 
the economy sucks right now. cars are sitting on lots. and s2ks are NOT selling nearly as well as everythign else. it's a two seater impractical car that is about to get discontinue and has been around a long time...it's not exactly flying off the shelf.
 
don't get me wrong, I want one. but ONLY for a smokin' deal.
 
now what color do I want...

Replies to this message:
• dwynne (Jan 14, 2008 4:50 pm)
  • 23109vc (Jan 14, 2008 10:52 pm)
    • accelerator (Jan 31, 2008 1:37 pm) and 1 more...

Replying to: 23109vc (Jan 14, 2008 4:16 pm)

The difference is when they get the cars back at the end of the lease and can't get 65% or whatever of MSRP for them. The captive lease banks usually do several points over the ALG residual the 3rd party banks do then money with the MF to make the deal sweet or sour. They know if the MF is high (like the 08 Accords) and you try to go 3rd party lease the lower real-world MF that the 3rd party bank is using will net out the same or ever higher payment than they get using an inflated residual and a high MF.
 
When they want to make a deal sweet they go with a really low MF, unrealistically high residual, or both at the same time.
 
The ALG residual on a new 08 S2000 is 50% but the AHFC residual is 56% and the couple that with a 0.00054 MF (vs 0.00230-0.00240 real world). So in this case a 3rd party lease is not even close.
 
We had folks wait before trying to get a better rate and it never happened. Other times a great rate would get even better. Unless they bump up the residual they can't lower this rate by much - and if they did it would not change the payment by much. If they dropped it to the 0.00014 they have on the Pilot the S payment would go down about $20 per month. Which is not all that much, in the grand scheme of things.
 
I got mine in the summer of 05, which you would THINK would not be the good time to get a deal on a convertible. I would think spring is the WORST time since in most place it is top down time with only the far north being still too cold. Once summer hits it is too hot in the south to sell lots of convertibles. Right not is a too cold (for most folks) for top down driving in most parts of the country so sales will be slow and we think deals good.
 
If I lived where I could drive top down NOW and didn't already have a convertible, I would try to find a dealer willing to go invoice including fees on an 08 and do the lease. Then not only do you get a nice deal you start driving NOW. In 3 or 4 months if the lease deals are a LITTLE better you will have been enjoying driving all those months. If the deals don't get better, then you wasted the time you could be driving a convertible. If you live where it is way too cold for top down driving, you may can get one for even less - the dealer is looking at several on the lot and months before warmer weather arrives so may be willing to take more of a beating on the price to make a sale NOW rather than hang on to try to make a little more months down the road. I once leased a new 'vette convertible sight-unseen from a dealer north of Green Bay in December. He even paid 1/2 the haul charge to have to brought to me. I guess he knew if I didn't take it he could be looking at in (on his showroom floor) for 6 months or more .
 
Funny story, the "Internet sales manager" at a Honda dealership e-mailed me today saying it was "taking too much time answering all my questions and e-mails" and I needed to "come in and pick out a car and they would make me the best possible deal" on it. Give me a break. I don't go onto a car lot without a deal in place - that is WHY I deal with the Internet folks - I want the rock bottom price and THEN I come in, pick out a car, and sign the papers. I don't start negotiating on the lot.
 
Dennis

Replies to this message:
• 23109vc (Jan 14, 2008 10:52 pm)
  • accelerator (Jan 31, 2008 1:37 pm)
    • dwynne (Jan 31, 2008 4:48 pm)

Replying to: dwynne (Jan 14, 2008 4:50 pm)

you are so right about NOT making the deal on the lot.
 
I learned that with my MDX. I had plenty of dealers refuse to deal via the phone or internet and insisted I "come down and then I will give you a great deal". I politely told them I had a great deal in writing from dealer X, and I'd like them to beat it to earn my business and fax me the deal in writing. Some played and faxed the offer, but many gave me "you have to come down" line.
 
One guy was upfront. he said "you probably aren't in my immediate area, and you're just using me to drive down the price, then you'll take my offer to some other dealer, and they will get your business". that's almost exactly what he said. he was sort of right..but i guess they get enough guys like us that some of them get fed up with it. oh well, that's their job - to make offers, and try to sell cars. some just want some sucker to come ont he lot and tell them "how much they have to have this car".
 
I'm sold on the s2k. i just need to finish selling my wife on it. she's not 100% thrilled at the idea of me getting a two seater. I think she assumes that I'll drive off into the sunset and not come home all day - and leave here home with the kids.
 
I just want something cool to drive to/from work so each day I get a sports car "fix".

Replies to this message:
• accelerator (Jan 31, 2008 1:37 pm)
  • dwynne (Jan 31, 2008 4:48 pm)

Replying to: 23109vc (Jan 14, 2008 10:52 pm)

Replies to this message:
• dwynne (Jan 31, 2008 4:48 pm)