Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Honda S2000 Lease Questions
270 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2008 at 5:20 AM
You are in the Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum. Your Hosts are car_man & kyfdx
|
Replying to: cicilbri (Jan 10, 2008 2:33 pm) is this a new lease special? |
|
|
ok... this new lease deal has the MF at .00054 the residual value on a 12k / year lease is based on a 56% residual. that's using the advertised MSRP of 34935 and a residual value of 19563. now the website says the buyer must put down $2499 in cash. 1500 of it is cap cost reduction the rest goes to drive offs? i'm not 100% sure on that. they say the actual cap cost is 31141. i KNOW people have been buying S2000s AT invoice. and that is 31000 I think. if you just ignore their numbers about how much you put down or what the cap cost is ... once you know the MF and the residual and invoice..you can calculate a potential payment. using the honda website figures for MF and residual. and assuming i bought the car for 500 over invoice which is roughly 31500 I get a monthly payment with CA 7.75% sales tax of $400. that's WITH tax. now assume I just plunk down say $1500 to cover drive offs. that brings the payment down to $355/month. that's not bad for an s2000!
|
|
|
Replying to: 23109vc (Jan 11, 2008 3:12 pm) That said, you should be able to get one at invoice or a little over. So if you run the numbers at that price you come out with a little higher payment with the $595 bank fee, first payment, security deposit (if applicable), and TTL due at signing. This deal calls for a net cap cost of $31,141.79 and invoice is $31,689 or $547.21 more. So the payment would be higher unless you put in that much as a cap cost reduction, paid the $595 bank see, and first month's payment and TTL at signing. One problem you have is that many dealers still have a bunch of 07 S2000s and this lease does not apply to those. They may not have many 08s to choose from or might not be willing to deal as low to move them when they have 07s to move. If you want to go 3rd party lease or finance, the 07s should be a couple grand under invoice, maybe a little better. Dennis
|
|
|
Replying to: dwynne (Jan 11, 2008 4:00 pm) My local dealer has one or two 2008s. they have FOUR 2007's left. I was over at the dealer a few days ago just looking and saw them sitting there. I'd be interested in either buying OR leasing. My goal is to keep my monthly cash outlay low. Not sure if I'd keep the car long term or not. Assuming I can buy at or below invoice vs this lease special, it still seems like the lease is cheaper. I'm confused a bit by the lease special on the Honda website. it says the cap cost is 31141 and the residual is 19563, and MF .00054. $2499 due at signing. I believe that $1500 goes toward cap cost reduction, the rest goes toward first month payment, bank fee, etc. so if you use those numbers on the edmunds.com lease calculator.. use 31141 as the selling price, plug in residual, MF, etc....and you figure that $1500 goes to pay down the cap cost, you wind up with a monthly payment with tax that seems about 25-30 less than what Honda is advertising. I'm thinking if I go to the dealer to lease an 08 and pay $2500 out of pocket, the total payment WiTH tax should be about $350. not 350 + tax. to me that seems like a good deal. now if I compare that to a PURCHASE of a left over 2007, that I can buy for say $28500. my cash outlay will be way more to buy. I don't have a ton of cash to put down. i could put donw $5000. if you assume i put down only 2500...so that the cash out of pocket is similar to the lease...i'd be paying over $600/month. assuming I got 6% for 84 months...stretch it out as long as they woudl let me do it... and you still get payment of like $577. what's the car worth in 7 years??? not sure that's really worth it. putting 5k down the payments come down to 541. and that's at 84 months!! if I finance for say 60 months..still a long time, but more reasonable.. and assume I get 3.9% or some low rate..it's $680/month. geez. sorry. i don't want to pay 680/month. i think i'd rather put down a couple grand, no more, then enjoy the car for 3 years with a relatively low monthly payment. at the end of the lease, if i love the car, and it's worth more than my residual i can buy it. or just give it back and buy the next hot toy i can't live w/out.  so overal - is this lease deal about as good or as good as what's been offered in the past? scouring old posts. it looks like there was a $299/month deal back in 05, but that required more money down. like $3600 or so. so overall, this deal seems pretty good. i know that the economhy is not doing great, and car sals are slow, so it's possible that the lease deals will improve in another 3-6 months...but how much better could it get? Dennis - you think this current lease deal is good? you think they'd sell the car for even less than $31? i can't find invoice pricing on the 2008 models.
|
|
|
Replying to: 23109vc (Jan 11, 2008 4:26 pm) If you figure it, they say $2,499.00 total due at signing and of this $1,555.00 is a cap cost reduction and the net cap is $31,141.79. If you add the new and the CCR you get $32,696.79 - this is the selling price for the car and destination. So if you got the car for invoice ($31,689) you would save $1,007.79 over the deal as posted. So you could get the payment of $349 if you paid $1,491.21 at signing plus TTL. Does that make sense? The difference between the amount they show down and the CCR is $994, this is the $349 first payment and the $595 bank fee. The shown deal is just a sample, that sets the payment for a given selling price and money down. Once you know the MF and residual you can do anything you like - sign and drive, first payment only at signing, $5k at signing, etc. The other variable is how cheap you can deal on the car. So you get your best price then run the numbers and see how they look. I will tell you this, it is not wise to sink much money into a lease - if your car was stolen or totalled you lose your investment completely. In this case the rate is 1.3% effective which is CHEAP money so I would roll everything into the lease and either do sign and drive or just pay the first payment only. Roll in the TTL, the bank fee, etc use THEIR money at 1.3% and not yours. If you want a low payment, then stick your money in the bank and each month draw upon it to make the effective payment lower - you will be better off and if you find you don't need to draw on the extra money it will be saved for a rainy day. Where are you located, your profile does not show? Some dealers don't deal much on the S2000 others will deal more. Maybe we can point you to a better dealer if yours will not work with you. You could also ask about any lease deals on the leftover 07 cars and see if there is anything, but probably there is not. If you price out leasing cheap then buying at residual you will probably find that due to the low rate now you come out OK VS just buying now. Your used car rate to buy out the lease at end will be higher than a new car rate now, but you will have the first 3 years at the cheap lease rate. In the end it would be cheap PROBABLY to buy the car outright if you plan on keeping it, but in this case you will not be out much if you lease then buy - or lease and turn in and move on. Dennis
|
|
|
Replying to: dwynne (Jan 11, 2008 5:09 pm) took an s2000 out last night for a test drive. wow. loved it. verynice very tight. handled like it was on rails. noisy and rough, but with the top down, it was NICe. the vtec wail was great and if you shift fast enogh it never falls out of VTEC and really moved nicely. quick. i test drove an 08 RX8 and i must say the s2000 is quicke.r the rx8 is more "comfy"...but the s2000 is the choice for hardcore driving. anyway..after the test drive i talk to the finance guy, told him I was interested but was not buying right then. it oldhim i would make my calls, chck around local dealers b/c i knew there was some wiggle room int he sellin price to get mymonthly payment down a bit more. he acted like he was 100% positive that there was NO wiggle room AT ALL. he said that's thenational deal and we can't change it. i politely told him that i leased a 2007 MDX about 10 months ago,and that another dealer had told me that 100% they could NTO deviate formt he advertised national lease and with about 3 hpone calls I had people knocking 2000 off. I told him that same dealer that said "no way" was begging me to come back so he could match the deal I found elsewhere. i was polite, told them i knew they were in business to make money, but that I was a buyer would would do myhomework..and would get back to them. i am near san diego, CA. a bit north by about 45 minutes. Temecula, CA. i havea honda dealer 5 min from my house. so the big question is - how much cheaper can they go on the advertised lease special?? if i call up 5 dealers and say I'l come down in 1 hour and sign the paperowrk and drive an s2k off the lot BUT I want the car at $30k or $30500... or whatever... where is the lowest i'm goin to find someone going? my guess is if I said i'll pay $31500...or right around invoice, they would go for it. that would save me another $1000 and bring the payment down anothe 25-30/month. if I could put down $2500 and then have about a $350/month payment WITH CA tax...i'd bite. BTW, i checkd into RX8 leases. FORGETABOUT IT. on a 36mo lease iwh 12k, the residual is like 50% and the MF is terrible. payment with 2500 down would be in the mid to high 400s. almost 100-150 higher than i can get on the s2000. mazda better do something or their 08 RX8s are goin to sit and rot. can I get $2500 out of pocket and $350/month WITh tax? that's a smokin deal. the s2k is driving nirvana.
|
|
|
Replying to: 23109vc (Jan 12, 2008 10:16 am) Used to have an 05 RX-8 and it was a nice car, the rotary is SMOOOOOOTH and the shifter may be even better than the S2000 gearbox. But it drank gas like is was water (14-15mpg around VS 23-24 in the S2000) and you have to keep the oil topped up. I got mine on a special lease deal from Mazda - $2,000 in incentives to take it plus another $500 rebate I had plus a 1% of so MF made it worth the payments. The resale value on them is nothing, that is the only lease car I have ever had that I turned back in. Every other one I could trade off or sell over and make some money on before lease end. Even at the residual amount I had no takers and MAC does not negotiate the buyout price so I let them have it back - and I was way under miles on it. My guess is around invoice + dealer fee or a little more would be a nice price. Invoice looks like $31,689 on the "base" (non CR) S2000 for 08. The deal calls for a net cap cost of $31,141.79 so in order to get the $349 promo payment you would have to put down the $2,499 shown in the promo and the difference between the deal cap and your price + fees. Let us say you get invoice and there is no dealer fee, then you are looking at $3,046.21 plus TTL at signing to net a payment of $349 per month shown in the promo. I think CA taxes the payment at 8%, don't they? They would net you a payment of $376.92. The thing to do is just contact the Internet sales departments at all the Honda dealerships within a radius of where you live and tell them you are interested in an 08 S2000 (no 07s will do) and you want their bottom line price for the car with destination and any dealer fees included. Get one at or real near invoice and you are ready to go. Once you have the price set, then you worry about the lease. Just make sure they charge you the proper bank fee ($595) and give you the buy rate (0.00054) if you qualify and you are all set. Some of the Hondas have dealer money on them which can't be combined with the cheap lease. In those case you have to disclose pretty early on your are doing the cheap lease, since they will give you a "cash" price on the car and then be unable to let you have it at that price if you do the cheap lease. The dealer simply does not get the incentive money on the cheap lease cars so can't price them as low. The S2000 as far as I know has no such incentive on it, so deal low on the price and once you get that then worry about the lease. Remember, you don't have to put down anything or put the amount shown in the promo lease. You can put down less or nothing and just have a higher payment - which is what I recommend. Dennis
|
|
|
Replying to: dwynne (Jan 12, 2008 11:42 am) the rx8 is a run car, but it's not as fun as the s2k when you are just "driving". for commuting and hauling a passenger (or two) the 8 would be a really great car. but i'm sort of worried about a used 8 as i know there are some issues with them and i'd hate to be making a used car payment and get hit with repairs. i COULD find a really really low mile used 06 and have several years of warranty left..so i'd have some peace of mind, but the 8 depreciates like nuts. so i'd end up with a used 8 for say 18-20k. my monthly payment on a used one would be not too bad... but the lease deal ont he s2k is pretty good and that's for brand new with full waranty. i'd be on the hook for my monthly payment and that's it. also, i'm very much into performance. after driving the 8 and the s2k, i can say for a fact that the 8 would leave me wanting to mod it. i'd for sure want to stiffen up[t he springs, sway bars...and then i'm dumping a couple of grand just tog et it to handle like the s2k. the s2k, when i drove it, was PERFECT as is. i know guys mod it, but bone stock the s2k would be FINE for me and I would be perfectly happy to drive it through out the lase and NOT mod a thing. the 8 would get me in the mod mood..and i don't know if I really want to buya usd car that i need to mod to make me happy in it. if i bougth used, i could do mods, and mazdaspeed sells stuff that the dealer won't void warranty on...so you can do it. i wonder what would handle better. a bone stock s2k, or an 06 RX8 with coilovers, sway bars, strut bars? hmmmm... very tough decision. buying used vs a lease of new. the new s2k would be more fun to thrash around but at the end of the lease, you've spent that money and you "own" nothing. on a used rx8 purchase, say i pick it up for 20k out the door. spend 2k to make it handle like the s2k (or maybe even OUT handle the s2k) and in 4-05 years of payments i'd own it outright and lets say it was worth 20k when i bought it, in 5 years, maybe it's still wroth 5k or so... so i've "spent" a net of 15k. on a 3 years lease,of an s2k, that's about all i'll spend. so in the short run i'd spend more on the s2k lease and spend less in the long run to buy the 8. they are both cool cars. i really hate that digital LED bar graph looking tach on the s2k and I love the 8's tach/gauge setup. very cool. i like the shifter int he 8 better too. i need to test dive a used 8 to see how i like it. tough decision. of course my wife thinks I should wait for the 09 TL that is AWD, then sell my s70 volvo, and put the cash toward that. i kinda want a sports car though.
|
|
|
Replying to: 23109vc (Jan 12, 2008 5:47 pm) The S has little insulation sound or temp, just look under the fender wells or under the dash. It is a bare bones sports car - but has some luxury touches like leather, power roof, etc. I went back and looked at the deal on my 05 S, it was $200-300 under invoice including the dealer doc fee. The MF was higher but the residual was as well, which along with the lower invoice back in 05 equalled a better deal. I think around $30 a month less that the deal today. The best price I have gotten so far on an 08 S is invoice plus dealer fee, but I think they will do it for invoice including the fee once I push them a bit. Since I still have a few months to go on my current lease, I think I will wait and see if the deals getting any better. After all, I have one to drive now and worst case I will just buy mine at lease end if nothing better comes up. I have been watching the S lease numbers for a while and even though they have not been selling well at all, Honda has not been doing really cheap leases - so this could be as good as it gets. Really no way for us to know. Dennis
|
|
|
Replying to: dwynne (Jan 12, 2008 9:03 pm) sent you an email. don't want to hijack this thread and turn it into an RX8 vs S2k discussion. this is the s2k lease forum. as for the lease deals - my goal is to get the car AT or below invoice and then use the attractive MF to get the lowest possible payment. the residuals looks average. one question is this - my local dealer has 4 2007s and 2 2008s. the lease deal is only applicable to the 08s. i'm knowledgeable enough about leases to understand how they work, what the different terms all mean, etc. i've read all the tutorials on leases and have leased two cars in the past. for a toy car like an s2k - that i'll be driving short distances...and a car like the s2k that has a reputation for having great reliability...part of me wonders if i'd want to buy it and then keep it for 6-7 years. given the low mileage i'd put on it - it would probably last at LEAST that long for me. i'm not going to be commuting 100 miles a day in it. I will probably drive it to work - but i live 5 miles from the office - so a few hundred miles a month in commuting to work and then whatever I can put on it during evenings weekends. i'm almost wondering if I'd be able to use up the 12k/year - probably not. i bet i'd be more like 5-7k. so lets say I negotiate a purchse on a 2007 and there is some kind of incentive and I can get the purchase price down to about 28000 or so. the prices paid forum has guys claiming that's about what they paid. i'm guessing the 08s would sell at invoice, so 31500 or so. so i can buy a new 07 and save 3500 or so. or lease an 08 and have the low MF. if I buy, i'd put a small amount down, say 3k and finance over the length of time i plan to own - say 72 months. the payment over 72 months is $457. now on the lease, it's only 3 years. so in three years, I own nothing and have to turn it in. with the purchase, at the end of the payments I own the car. so you have to try to estimate what the car would be worth at the end of the payments, and then look at what you spent along the way. to try and get an idea what a 6 year old s2k is worth, i hit kbb.com. i know the estimates are usually optimistically high...but for kicks, i put in a 2001 S2000 with 75000 miles. it claims a private party value is 15000. it says trade in is 10-12k. so lets assume the lowest value - it's worth $10,000 at the end of 7 years. if I put down 3000 on the purchase, then pay $457/month for 72 months, plus my 3000 down payment, i've paid roughly $36000 for the car. and once i've paid all that mney, i have an asset with a value of about $10k were i to sell or trade it. so if you factor in the value of the asset, my net costs were really 26,000. the lease for 3 years is $350/month with 3000 down. that comes out to about $15,600 over 36 months. if you threoretically did two of these leases back to back (yeah you can't b/c there won't be an s2k in 2011, but assume you found something comparable for the same deal) then you're net costs are about 31000. 31,000 - 26000 = 5000. So in the long run, you technically are 5000 "ahead" by purchasing the s2k and owning it outright. unless along the 72 months you have 5000 in repairs that you would NOT have on the leased cars. i can see some repairs being done but not 5k worth. another upside to the lease scenario is that you have a NEW car from years 1-3 and then another NEW car from years 4-6. there are obvious upsides to having a new car vs a used/older one. if you spread the 5000 "extra" across the 72 month period, you are essentially paying $70/month MORE to lease than to own - in the long run. in the short run you pay LESS by about $100/month. so if cash flow is tight, lease. but you won't have anythign to show for it in the end. just the fun of having the car while you pay. if you buy, and you really like the car, years 7+ become gravy. NO payment, just drive it, enjoy it, and maintain it. costs will go way way down. of course you know in 7 years there will be all new cars, and the s2k, as cool as you think it is now, will be "old" and a car nut like me will want something new. so the whole lease vs buy thing is a hard call. there are short term benefits to leasing, but the purchase wins out in the long run. i think. anyone care to correct my math? or point out wher my logic may be flawed? as far as the lease deal is now - it seems good. it might get better, but probably not a whole lot.
|
|
You are here:
Forums
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Honda S2000 Lease Questions
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
2009 Honda S2000
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
