Last post on Dec 09, 2013 at 5:17 PM
You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
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Honda Accord, Car Leasing, Coupe, Sedan
#4019 of 5565 Re: Did I Get "Taken for a Ride" on My Honda Accord EX-L V-6 Lease? [heat_miser]
May 17, 2010 (3:22 am)
Honestly, this is a horrible deal. You could have gotten this vehicle for less than half the 378 monthly payment and very little paid upfront. There is no way that a 7,750 trade allowance equates to a $378 payment. It's so bad that it leads me to believe that something is missing. I'm assuming that you owe nothing on your trade as it's a 2003 EX.
I suggest that if you haven't taken delivery of your new car yet, DON'T! Step back, take a few deep breaths, and try to understand leasing. You may want to peruse these message boards to get an idea of what others are paying. I don't know what the money factor is for your situation nor do I know the residual factor but I can make a pretty good guess.
Here's a realistic example...
MSRP = 29,815
Residual 54% x 29,815 = 16,100.10 (36 months, 12,000 miles)
Money Factor = 0.00240 (this is probably higher (270?) given your 630 credit score)
Sell Price = 25,885 (invoice less the 1,200 cash incentive)
Gross Cap = 25,885
Cap Reduction = 7,750 ( Trade)
Adj Cap = 18,135
Term 36 months
Sales Tax Rate = Assume 7.75% (you didn't mention your state and so I have no
idea how taxes are computed)
Using the above data, your base payment is
0.00240 x (18,135 + 16,100.10) + (18,135 - 16,100.10) / 36 = 138.69
Payment w/tax = 138.69 x 1.0775 = 149.44 (I'm guessing your state taxes
Estimated Fees Due at Signing....
First Month's Payment..................... 149.44
AHFC Acq Fee................................ 595.00*
Dealer Doc Fee............................... 250.00*
License/plates/Reg. Fees................ 200.00
Service Credit............................... (1,100.00)
Total Due .................................... 94.44
* These are probably taxable in your state.
The Money Factor and residual may be off a bit but I'm betting that they're close. The only things that you will likely need to change are the money factor (negotiable) and residual factor (non-negotiable).You may have to tweak the sell price as you negotiate but I wouldn't increase it by more than $100-$200.
Also, you may want to create a one-page lease proposal on your letterhead using the above information. This will save time, money, and aggravation. Email it to the dealer and do all of your negotiating via email or phone.
My guess is that the dealer, like a shark, smelled blood and decided to clobber you to make up for narrow profit margins. I really question the 7,750 trade allowance. The evidence (payment) suggests that they're giving you nothing for your trade. This is why it's so important for people to understand how a lease is structured and how to make all pertinent calculations.
If you need me to intercede, feel free to email me at
All the Best,
#4020 of 5565 Re: Did I Get "Taken for a Ride" on My Honda Accord EX-L V-6 Lease? [heat_m
May 17, 2010 (7:54 am)
PLEASE DO WHAT DELTA HAS ADVISED YOU. This is absolutely the worst deal I have seen. They are killing you on this deal. It made me angry when I read your post. DO WHAT DELTA HAS ADVISED YOU AND STOP IT POST HASTE. DO NOT LET THEM TELL YOU THAT YOU HAVE TO GO ON WITH THIS DEAL. YOU DO NOT!!!
#4021 of 5565 Re: Did I Get "Taken for a Ride" on My Honda Accord EX-L V-6 Lease? [delta737h]
May 17, 2010 (1:26 pm)
Thanks soooo much for your response, John!!!
I did some calculations last night on my own via Edmonds Basic Lease Calc application, and I realized that the dealer knew I didn't know what the hell I was doing when I came in yesterday... (They actually had the nerve to start the negotiations at $500/month!!!)... I live in WA state (this was at Honda of Kirkland) so sales tax is 9.5%. They never even showed me how the lease was calculated, what the components were, and kept walking away to look as if they were running some big calculations in an office before coming back with a new number. This song and dance went on for 2+ hours!!!
Then they made me hand over my keys for my trade-in saying that this was a standard procedure (when I questioned this practice, they said they forgot to tell me earlier)... and then they sent me away in another '09 V4 Accord that was on the lot. I feel like they practically stole my old car, which to answer your question is completely paid for. I have just sent them a scathing email telling them to halt the loan process until further notice.
I may take you up on your intervention if I have any further questions. AGAIN, THANKS SOOOO MUCH for being a concerned consumer and concerned for me.
#4022 of 5565 Re: Did I Get "Taken for a Ride" on My Honda Accord EX-L V-6 Lease? [heat_m [temj12]
May 17, 2010 (1:28 pm)
Thanks for your response... I have done just that, and sent the dealer a scathing email asking them to halt the loan/lease process.
#4023 of 5565 Re: Did I Get "Taken for a Ride" on My Honda Accord EX-L V-6 Lease? [heat_miser]
May 18, 2010 (7:49 am)
I fully agree with what others have already posted in response to you. Now, if and when you have a chance to negotiate another deal, maybe you better be more conservative about your trade-in expectations. It seems to me you were given such a good trade-in allowance just to lure you into the deal. $7750 on a 2003 Accord EX-L V6 in average condition sounds a bit too optimistic. Also, forget about $1100 service credit. Any service you performed on your trade-in turns dust and has no negotiating value. The only things that matter are, basically, the model year and maybe mileage to a certain degree.
#4024 of 5565 honda lease lx , illinois
May 18, 2010 (7:37 pm)
I got interested in a lease for my daughter for last 3 years of college. never leased before.
Prior to arriving at dealership, I called in reponse to an ad and was told I would need to put down about 3.5k and lease payment of $129. Sounded pretty good. Closed end lease, gap isurance yada yada ya.
heres what they offered me:
disc $ -4885
Vehicle price $17680
Deal "pro Pack" 595 (mudflaps?)
Tot Cap 18275
down pay $1800
nmet cap 16475
#^ month payment 128.98
Down payment $1800
lic/title $ 219
doc prep $ 154
bank fee $ 595
ist payment $ 128.88
due on delivery $4189
i walked out as i thought they should have included the bank fee in the price and not the accesories with a due on delivery 595 less.Note how the bank fee and the accesories are the same price.
Should i take the deal or play hard ball?b>
#4025 of 5565 WA Washington State Leasing Laws
May 19, 2010 (12:02 pm)
I signed a lease for a Honda Accord that hasn't arrived on the lot yet. I left my car with them. In fact, they DEMANDED it... I was skeptical and asked a lot of questions about that. They gave me a loaner. I realized I got a raw deal on the lease pricing and wanted out and wanted my car back. They are saying that they own it now because I signed the papers... I received NO documents on the transaction except a Temp Registration on the car I didn't receive yet. Is this legal? Can they keep my car and bind me to the lease? I noticed on the Attny Gnrl's website that there is no 3 day "right of cancellation" on leases in the state of WA, but it says all pre-conditions must be met (whatever that means).
#4026 of 5565 Re: WA Washington State Leasing Laws [heat_miser]
May 19, 2010 (11:34 pm)
Apparently it is not legal to hold a lessee to a lease agreement if the lessor did not give the lessee a dated written statement of required disclosures prior to consummation of the lease. Title I of the Federal Consumer Protection Act re: Consumer Leasing says the following:
Sec 182 reads as follows:
§ 182. Consumer lease disclosures
Each lessor shall give a lessee prior to the consummation of the lease a dated written statement on which the lessor and lessee are identified setting out accurately and in a clear and conspicuous manner the following information with respect to that lease, as applicable… (then a list of disclosures follows)
WA State Law agrees with Federal Law by stating the following:
Unlawful acts or practices — Consumer lease of a motor vehicle:
Each of the following acts or practices are unlawful in the context of offering a consumer lease of a motor vehicle:
3) Failure to comply with the disclosure requirements of Title I of the federal consumer protection act (90 Stat. 257, 15 U.S.C. Sec. 1667 et seq.), which is also known as the federal consumer leasing act, including, but not limited to, failure to disclose all fees that will be due when a consumer exercises the option to purchase.
Also for good reading is Federal Regulation M:
(1) Form of disclosures. The disclosures required by § 213.4 shall be given to the lessee together in a dated statement that identifies the lessor and the lessee; the disclosures may be made either in a separate statement that identifies the consumer lease transaction or in the contract or other document evidencing the lease. Alternatively, the disclosures required to be segregated from other information under paragraph (a) (2) of this section may be provided in a separate dated statement that identifies the lease, and the other required disclosures may be provided in the lease contract or other document evidencing the lease. In a lease of multiple items, the property description required by § 213.4(a) may be given in a separate statement that is incorporated by reference in the disclosure statement required by this paragraph.
(3) Timing of disclosures. A lessor shall provide the disclosures to the lessee prior to the consummation of a consumer lease.
#4027 of 5565 2010 Accord Coupe EX-Auto Lease
May 20, 2010 (11:55 am)
I qualify for AHFC's Super-Preferred credit tier. What kind of money factor should I expect from the dealer?
I know they can manipulate it to make a greater profit so I'd like to go in with a "ballpark" number tomorrow.
So far, I've been able to negotiate the cap cost down to $20,899 on the EX Coupe Automatic. Is this a good deal?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
#4028 of 5565 Re: honda lease lx , illinois [joller]
May 21, 2010 (3:09 am)
Actually, it doesn't really matter whether the 595 bank fee is paid up front or rolled into the lease (six or one-half dozen of the other). Either way, you're going to pay it. However, if you prefer, the dealer can roll it into the lease. In fact, the dealer can roll in all the upfront fees into the lease.
The dealer pro pack (595) sounds like BS. I have no idea what this includes. If it's only mud flaps, then 595 is a lot of doe-rey-mee to pay for just mud flaps. However, you did get a fantastic selling price (17,680) that is about the lowest that I've seen.
I know that this car is for your daughter and so you probably want to keep the payment as low as possible. However, the effective interest rate is about 3.8% and I would be inclined to roll everything into the lease. Where are you going to get a personal loan for 4,188 at 3.8%? Another issue is that I wouldn't put $1800 down because (a) a car is a depreciating asset and I'm sure you wouldn't invest in stock that you know will lose value over time and (b) God forbid, if the car is totaled or stolen, it's not likely that you'll recover most or all of your down payment.
What is your sals tax rate? It looks like it may be no more than 7%. I always like to verify the sales tax.