Last post on May 24, 2013 at 5:35 PM
You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
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Honda Accord, Car Leasing, Coupe, Sedan
#3502 of 5264 Re: Leasing first time. 2009 Honda Accord? [cmhonda]
Oct 01, 2009 (5:58 pm)
You can negotiate the selling price of a vehicle in a lease, but you can't negotiate the terms of the lease agreement such as money factor, residual, and fees. The only fees you should be looking at in a lease are the AHFC acquisition fee, the dealer doc fee, taxes, possible tire fee (I say possible because I don't have to pay one in my area but it exists in many areas), DMV fees, and any dealer-installed options on the vehicle.
Honda's current lease deal on a 2009 Accord LX with automatic transmission is $209 a month with $2799 due at signing. That $2799 includes the first month's payment of $209, the $595 acquisition fee (which is the bank fee, so there shouldn't be a bank fee in addition to this), and a $1995 down payment. Your dealer was right in that the $2799 amount doesn't include some fees, such as the dealer doc fee, DMV fee, taxes on the down payment and fees (in NC, where I live, the tax is 3%), and the like. However, what your dealer didn't tell you is that you don't have to put all of that money down up front and that the price of the car is still negotiable. In that lease deal, the Accord LX has a selling price (aka gross cap cost, before the cap cost reduction is applied) of $19,606. You should be able to knock another $1000 off of that, based on what others here have been paying for that model as of late.
So when you negotiate the price of the car down from $19,600 to $18,600, the deal gets better: $179 a month with $2769 due at signing. And if you want to lower your down payment to nothing but the first month's payment and the misc. fees not included in the original down payment amount, the monthly payment becomes $256.50 (plus tax) with just the first month's payment, registration, dealer doc fee, etc. due at signing. In my area, that would come to $264.20 a month with a bit less than $750 due at signing ($399 doc fee, first month's payment, registration, and tax) and the acquisition fee rolled into the cost of the lease.
In the end, your monthly payment boils down to the selling price of the car and how much money you put down (less money down is better). Just know that Honda's lease deal isn't set in stone and you can in fact do better. It even states in the fine print on Honda's site that the cap cost reduction of $1995 may be paid by the suggested dealer contribution, which I think means that there's more flexibility in the selling price of the car than we may know.
I hope this helps...
#3503 of 5264 did you see the new terms???
Oct 02, 2009 (5:20 am)
199 for 36 months with 2199 due signing?
How would this affect the payment?
FEATURED SPECIAL LEASE: Closed-end lease for 2009 Accord Sedan LX Automatic Transmission (Model CP2639EW) for $199.00 per month for 36 months with a $2,000.00 capitalized cost reduction available to customers who qualify for the AHFC Super Preferred credit tier. Other rates/tiers are available under this offer. $2,199.00 total due at lease signing (includes first month's payment with no security deposit and capitalized cost reduction; total net capitalized cost and base monthly payment does not include tax, license, title, registration, documentation fees, options, insurance and the like). Not all buyers may qualify.
Subject to limited availability. 10/1/2009 through 11/2/2009, to approved lessees by American Honda Finance Corp. Closed end lease for 2009 Accord Sedan LX Automatic Transmission vehicles (Model CP2639EW), for well qualified lessees. Not all lessees will qualify. Higher lease rates apply for lessees with lower credit ratings. MSRP $22,415.00 (includes destination) less the capitalized cost reduction (which may be paid by the suggested dealer contribution) resulting in actual net capitalized cost $18,038.23. Net capitalized cost includes $595 acquisition fee. Dealer contribution may vary and could affect actual lease payment. Taxes, license, title fees, options and insurance extra. Total monthly payments $7,164.00. Option to purchase at lease end $12,328.25. Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and 15 cents/mi. over 12,000 miles/year for vehicles with MSRP less than $30,000, but for vehicles with MSRP of $30,000 or more, mileage cost is 20 cents/mi. over 12,000 miles/year. See dealer for complete details.
#3504 of 5264 New terms, and 2009 vs. 2010.
Oct 03, 2009 (1:33 am)
No, I didn't realize the terms changed...wow. They pulled a fast one on me, as lately they haven't been introducing new terms until about the 8th of the month. I actually went by my local dealer today after work without having a chance to check honda's site for changes, so I went in armed with the wrong terms haha.
They were really trying hard to get me into a 2010 instead of a 2009 (I think part of that is because the car with the color combo that I wanted was at another dealership and that wasn't going to benefit them in their effort to clear out their inventory of 2009s), and they were trying even harder to convince me that the terms for the 2010 model were much better than the 2009. Yeah, the 2010's residual value is 7% higher, but the selling price is higher too, over 2 grand higher. So it ends up being close, with the 2010 costing just a tad more each month.
They kept pushing the 2010, but I don't like some of the changes they've made this year. On the EX models with cloth, the door panel inserts are now hard plastic instead of vinyl, and they changed the seatbacks (where the pockets on the backside of the seats are) from cloth to shiny black plastic. Those two things were enough to make me wince the first time I sat in the 2010 as they really stand out and look cheap. They also got rid of the engine cover on the 4-cylinder (why? to save $5?). Oh, but they did add a liner to the trunklid and a pair of adjustable rear seat vents that, oddly enough, seem to be aimed towards the floor. The only thing about the 2010 that I found to be superior was the driver's seat, and that might actually be a big plus for many out there. It doesn't look any different, but I swear that it's more comfortable. In the 2009 I test-drove, the headrest was poking into the back of my head no matter how I adjusted it. On the 2010, it wasn't. Honda must've tweaked the seat design ever so slightly to address some of the complaints about seat comfort in the 2008 and 2009 models.
For a 2010 EX I4 auto sedan with cloth, they quoted me a payment of $275/month with $875 total out of pocket. MSRP was $26126 (had a few bs add-ons), residual was $15711 (62% of the original msrp of $25,340), and the selling price was $22987. The selling price is a little under invoice, but I know I can do better if I wait a few months when they start rolling out incentives on the 2010's. The money factor may go up in the coming months, but the price of the car is sure to drop and will hopefully outweigh the increase in the money factor. The manager of the dealership (yes, the head honcho himself) swore up and down that even if I waited, the price wouldn't get any lower and would in fact, go up. I said we'll see and I walked out
As for your payment, cmhonda, it will be much lower as the money factor has dropped significantly from .00208 to .00133. The marketing support on the 2009 is still the same at $1500.
Without negotiation, your payment would be $257.21 plus tax with first month's payment, doc fee, registration, and zero cap cost reduction due at signing. That's with a selling price of $19443 as it is in the current lease terms. Once again, if you negotiate the price down to about $18,600, your payment would become $232.68 plus tax with the same fees due at signing. For me, in my area with 3% tax, this would equate to a payment of $239.66 with $710 total due at signing (first month's payment + $399 doc fee + $69 registration fee + tax on payment and registration).
You may be able to do even better than that, depending on the selling price you negotiate. But it's a good thing you waited until this month to lease. I'd still suggest waiting until a little later this month and make them sweat on the remaining 2009s for as long as you can. They're not selling that well at all, at least at my local dealer.
#3505 of 5264 did you see the new terms???
Oct 03, 2009 (5:59 am)
I went to my dealer yesterday. I left there feeling like I was going to throw up. It was a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE experience.
First, they also pushed me into a 2010, fine, I really wanted that anyways, but I did not have any numbers printed out for a 2010, so I was kind of helpless.
Then they did not have a silver LX on their lot, but they had a silver LX-P so remember all the figures are for the LX-P.
Then, he asked me what I wanted my payment to be? Um what? I do not negotiate up from the payment, lets negotiate down from the price, ok? NOPE, they would not do it, said the price is set.
So he comes back out, with a payment of 218.51+tax (234.90 after tax) monthly and 3600 down!!! Ok so what does this 3600 include? Seriously it took them 20 mins back and forth to agree to tell me, the "finance manager" actually said, why does she want to know that, I got her payments where she wants them.
UM WHAT? I can hear you!!! lol
And then they bring me a printout, showing the MSRP of 22565 and then the 62% residual, and then the initial cap cost of 21823, with the cash cap reduction of 2199.43 and my down as 3410. Ok, 20 minutes ago you said 3600, so where did the extra 190 dollars go? Did it just vanish into thin air? oh wait, you can not make up any more fee's to pull out your butt, so 3410 is as much as you can get?
But it still does not show what the 3410 is for, it just says 3410. So I again ask, show me what it goes to, all the time I'm telling them, look I know there are fee's I just want to know what they are, it is my money and I like to know what it goes for.
Finally, again, 20 minutes later, no joke, he comes out with a hand written paper, showing the follow fees
Tire fee 5
Lemon Law 2
Rental Surcharge (this was later explained to me as gap coverage) 60
CVR fee (later explained to me as the electronic filing fee for my tag) 24
Cap reduction tax 164.96
Tax of initial fee 44.21
PLUS the cap reduction of 2199.43
Give the total 3410.00
I left there so fast. And at first they were going to let me drive the car to my house to show my husband who has yet to see the car, sick kids, I'm the better negotiator, he gets to stay home...... but when I started asking questions, they changed their minds I guess because it was not even offered to me.
So I called 3 other dealers within an hour and a half and of course they can all do better.
I'm so confused.
#3506 of 5264 Re: did you see the new terms??? [cmhonda]
Oct 03, 2009 (6:58 pm)
Dealer called today, and said they could do 2199 total (down from 3600) and 238 (total after taxes) a month for a 2010 LX?
How does this sound? My husband does not even want to go back to that dealership, because of how we were treated yesterday. I do not feel like driving an hour for the same deal.
#3507 of 5264 Re: did you see the new terms??? [cmhonda]
Oct 03, 2009 (7:03 pm)
Wow, that is a bad experience. I'm glad you walked out. I'd never go to that dealership again. There are sites out there (including this one) where you can review dealerships. If I were you, I'd give them the nastiest review possible.
If you're still set on getting a 2010, you should be able to get one for around invoice with a bit of negotiation (like I had to endure yesterday). A 2009 would still save you a bit of money despite the significantly lower residual value, if you still want to go that route.
So the numbers they gave you were for the LX-P? Let's see...invoice for a 2010 LX-P is $21,437. Plugging the numbers into the lease calculator I get: $220.79/month (7.5% tax included) with about $2900 down including all of your fees (I rolled the doc fee into the payments) and $2200 worth of cap cost reduction. Without the $2200 cap cost reduction, your payment would change to $289.64/month with a little under $600 out of pocket.
The 2010 LX would only be about $10 less per month no matter how you look at it, and a 2009 LX should be $265 a month (with tax) with roughly $550 out of pocket (no cap cost reduction).
The only advice I have left to give is wait until the end of the month and then email the internet department of every dealership in your area with an offer. Offer them invoice price on the 2010 model and see what they say. If any of them agree to your offer or at least come close, see if the others are willing to beat it. Whoever gives you the lowest price wins. After you pick a dealership, then tell them that you want to lease using that selling price. Don't let them know that you're leasing until you settle on a price that you believe is fair. That way, they can't be sneaky and play with the payments and down payment while dancing around the selling price. It just kills me how dealers act as if the only thing that matters in a lease deal is getting the payment you want. Yeah, a low payment is great but I don't want to put down thousands of dollars just to get there when a simple adjustment to the selling price could give me the payment and the down payment that I want. The selling price determines the cost of the lease. The money factor is set (depending on your credit), the residual is set (it only differs if you want more mileage), and the fees are set. The only variable is the selling price, yet that is the only thing that they seem to not want you to know.
The dealer and the manager that I dealt with yesterday just seemed absolutely appalled when I asked them to cough up the lease details and they about flipped when I asked for the selling price, haha.
#3508 of 5264 Re: did you see the new terms??? [th83]
Oct 03, 2009 (7:23 pm)
The selling price of the 2010 is 20810. That is how they got the figure of 238 per month with 2199 down.
Do you think this sounds ok? This is also for a regular LX, not LX-P They said the LX-P is not offering any specials at this time.
#3509 of 5264 Re: did you see the new terms??? [cmhonda]
Oct 03, 2009 (8:51 pm)
That's not a bad deal, $277 above invoice. When I plug those numbers into the lease calculator (http://www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm), I get $218.81 with 7.5% tax included and roughly $2900 down including the first month's payment and all of the fees you listed in a previous post, assuming that the tax rate is indeed 7.5%, the money factor is .00133 and it's a 12k mile/year lease. And that payment even includes the $499 doc fee, which I rolled into the payments along with the $595 AHFC acquisition fee. I don't know why the numbers are different, unless there's something about the terms that I don't know about...
And they're full of it when they say the special only applies to the LX. The numbers I got for a 2010 EX were based on the special they have listed for the LX. The money factor is the same for all Accords on a 36-month lease. The only thing that differs between the different models and years is the residual value and of course, the selling price.
#3510 of 5264 Re: did you see the new terms??? [th83]
Oct 04, 2009 (4:39 am)
I think maybe the numbers are higher because it is 2199 down, not 2900?
#3511 of 5264 Re: did you see the new terms??? [cmhonda]
Oct 04, 2009 (4:45 am)
very very weird.... They sent me an email to an email address I know I did not give them. I never use that email address because it has _ and - and it is just confusing to say, so I use a different email. WEIRD!
But anyways, this is what they sent me.
2010 Honda Accord LX, Auto, 3 yr lease, 12k per year.
Car MSRP is $22,565.00
Appearance PKG 899.00
Mud Guards 269.00
Cargo Tray 199.00
Lease #ís Initial cap cost $20,823.00
Total Money down- $2,199.00
Total monthly payment $238.97
This includes all taxes, fees, tag, title, and doc fee.
The quote that was used on Friday:
Initial cap cost $21,823.00
Total money down $3,410.00
Total monthly payment $234.90
I took $1000.00 off the initial cap cost and reduced your down payment by $1,211.00
This lease payment is good until 02 November 2009. I do not know if Honda will continue this lease special.
I have given you a great deal, and would like talk to you if you have any questions.