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BMW X5 Lease Questions

2262 messages,  Last post on May 19, 2013 at 9:01 AM

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What is this discussion about? BMW X5, Car Leasing, SUV

Messages Page 197 of 227

#1956 of 2262 Re: Pro's/Con's of X5 Diesel? [ab10000] by jrhhunter

Jun 29, 2012 (12:57 pm)

Replying to: ab10000 (Jun 28, 2012 6:24 pm)
Re 1.
 
1. Your theory is based on an assertion that it costs the same for BMW to make a diesel engine X5 as it does to make a gas engine version. Not sure I buy that assertion.
 
2. Time will tell, but there are hints that residual values for diesels are higher than similar gas versions, thus valuations at resale may favor diesels over gas engines. This may be especially true if gas and diesel prices continue to rise over time.
 
Re 2.
 
1. The diesel is slower with less throttle response than the gas version. If those are the only two parameters from which you make a decision, the gas version would win. Going from a 2004 4.4 v8 to a 2012 diesel, the V8 was more responsive. However, after living with the 2012 diesel for about 2,000 miles, I can't say that I really miss the acceleration advantage so much that I would go back to a v8.
 
Re 3. I question a few of your assertions:
 
1. "The gas efficiency gained by diesel engine is mostly offset by the high price of diesel at the pump." State taxes on diesel are typically higher than those on gas in most states, but in some states, diesel is lower priced than premium gas. For BMWs you must compare diesel price with premium octane gas. Actually, diesel prices compare quite favorably with premium gas prices in Maryland.
 
2. Your economic theory about why gas companies need to keep diesel price high is pure speculation, with no basis in fact to support it. BMW makes the vehicles, not the oil companies, so where is the incentive for them to make fuel-thirsty gas cars...just to help out the oil companies? I would think that BMW would love to make cars with engines that make lots of power, and burn less fuel, such as diesels.

#1957 of 2262 Re: Pro's/Con's of X5 Diesel? [ab10000] by abmwfan

Jun 29, 2012 (2:47 pm)

Replying to: ab10000 (Jun 28, 2012 6:24 pm)
The following statement is patently wrong. "3- The gas efficiency gained by diesel engine is mostly offset by the high price of diesel at the pump. if gas and diesel cost the same, Oil companies will sell less diesel because diesel cars have more efficient engines. So to maximize their profit and fear of cannibalization "The negative impact of a company's new product Diesel on the sales performance of its existing related products Gas" they have to raise the price of Diesel to offset the efficiency gains, otherwise Oil companies will sell less gallons of diesel and their profits will go down because of the introduction of clean diesel cars. We are always at the mercy of car and oil companies."
 
Those statements were made by someone who does not understand the market economics of diesel fuel or diesel engine production. The reality is different.
 
1) US refineries charge more for diesel in part to recoup the cost of re-tooling refineries to produce the low-sulfur diesel required by modern diesel engines. Ultra-low sulfur diesel also is more expensive to refine and is more easily refined from sweeter, expensive crude (i.e. lower-sulfur crude oil.) The requirement to supply low-sulfur "highway diesel" hit U.S refineries with vehicle model year 2007. Demand for diesel engines tends to be lower in the U.S. because modern diesel engines could not be brought to the U.S until low-sulfur fuel hit distribution channels. Demand has had less time to build. Ancient market perception about "noisy dirty diesels" among the uninformed also reduces demand. Lower volume, higher per-unit prices.
2) Gasoline and diesel are refined from the same barrel of oil. The ratio of gas to diesel and the quantity of diesel produced is determined by refinery design, but is roughly 19 gallons gas to 10 gallons diesel in the U.S. Diesel production cannot easily be changed dynamically to respond to market conditions, so supply is not dynamically manipulated by oil companies to raise prices (contrary to your theory.)
3) The price dynamics of diesel (like propane and other distillates) are partly seasonal. Diesel prices increase in the winter as commercial demand increases and cold weather reduces the efficiency of diesel engines. Diesel does tend to compete with home heating oil, which will increase diesel prices in winter as demand for home heating oil increasaes. Increased diesel demand against a steady or reduced diesel supply equals higher winter prices. Prices tend to decrease for the opposite reasons in the summer.
4) European refineries have been re-tooled over several years to increase the ratio of diesel to gasoline production to meet the historically higher demand for diesel in Europe. The ratio of gasoline to diesel vehicle sales in Europe is now roughly 50/50. (This is one of the reasons why Europe could ship surplus gasoline to the U.S. after hurricane Katrina damaged gulf-coast refineries.) Highway diesel vehicle sales in the U.S. are much lower and a relatively recent phenomenon, so US refineries are not tooled to produce high volumes of highway diesel.
5) BMW Diesel engine production is lower volume and the engines are more expensive to produce with the extra pollution controls. They also were more expensive to certify in all 50 states.
 
So contrary to the grand petroleum industry conspiracy posted here, the fact is that diesel prices are driven by far more complex market dynamics than just profit conspiracy.
 
Two of my eight X5s have been 3.5d models. The others were V8s of various outputs. I currently own a 2012 X5 5.0i, but the 2011 diesel was my favorite. Its performance off the line and the "feel" of the diesel torque are better than the last generation V8s. The only time when the diesel's limits are plainly evident is during highway driving above 80 mph, but it excels in normal driving ranges. It is not "sluggish" and there's nothing "uncrisp" about the acceleration. It's a little noisier, but they're getting better.
 
Compared to my 2012 5.0i (420 miles per tank), the 600+ miles per tank of highway driving in the diesel are missed. Sometimes diesel is more expensive than Premium gasoline, sometimes not. Looking at GasBuddy just now, the price difference is 3 - 4 cents per gallon in my area compared to premium. At some stations, the price is the same.
 
The $4,500 eco-credit is good marketing, but it tends not to fully offset the usually lower residual values on the X5 3.5d.
 
If the author of these theories were a true BMW enthusiast, he/she would have read all about this in Roundel and numerous articles by the BMW engineers who designed their diesel engines.

#1958 of 2262 X35d lease question by rlmv

Jun 30, 2012 (11:54 pm)

Would appreciate some advice on whether this is a good deal or not.
 
X35d
Prem package
Prem sound
3rd row seats
running boards
bmw apps
 
MSRP 64845
Discount price 57260
$1350 drive off
$787 / month incl tax
 
36 month lease, 15k/yr
56% residual, .00185MF
 
I own a 2000 BMW. I'm having a hard time figuring out whether I qualify for the "Loyalty" credit or not. Some dealers are saying yes, some are saying no.
 
Thank you!

#1959 of 2262 Re: X5 35d lease question [nsada] by Car_man HOST

Jul 01, 2012 (1:33 pm)

Replying to: nsada (Jun 22, 2012 7:25 am)
Here you go nsada. Through July 9th, BMW Financial Services' buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36-month lease of a 2012 X5 35d with 12,000 miles per year are .00185 and 58%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its top credit tiers.
 
I haven't seen the lease program for the 2013 X5 diesel yet. Perhaps it will come out in the new July program.
 
Car_man
Host
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

#1960 of 2262 Re: Current Lease Rates [lonsterman] by Car_man HOST

Jul 01, 2012 (1:41 pm)

Replying to: lonsterman (Jun 28, 2012 3:44 pm)
Hi lonsterman. Please see my previous post for the information that you are looking for. BMW FS' 15,000 mile per year residual values are 2% lower than its 12,000 mile per year residuals.
 
Car_man
Host
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

#1961 of 2262 Re: X5 35d lease question [Car_man] by nsada

Jul 02, 2012 (2:12 pm)

Replying to: Car_man (Jul 01, 2012 1:33 pm)
Thanks Car_man...
Please also provide July MF and residual for 36/months 12K for 2013 X5 35i (base). Also, do you know of any rebates on the 2013's? Thanks.

#1962 of 2262 Re: X5 35d lease question [nsada] by Car_man HOST

Jul 05, 2012 (3:33 pm)

Replying to: nsada (Jul 02, 2012 2:12 pm)
No problem nsada. BMW's June lease program is scheduled to run through July 9th. Please feel free to check back with me some time after the 10th and I'll be happy to fill you in on what I know about the new offers.
 
As of the June programs, BMW was not offering any cash incentives on the 2013 models.
 
Car_man
Host
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

#1963 of 2262 Re: X5 35d lease question [Car_man] by alexkoper

Jul 11, 2012 (12:43 am)

Replying to: Car_man (Jul 05, 2012 3:33 pm)
Hi Car_Man - do you have an update on new July lease programs for both 2012 and 2013 X5 35d w 15k miles/year for 36 mos and 24 mos? Thanks so much!

#1964 of 2262 Re: X5 35d lease question [alexkoper] by Car_man HOST

Jul 11, 2012 (4:42 pm)

Replying to: alexkoper (Jul 11, 2012 12:43 am)
Here you go alexkoper. BMW Financial Services' July buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 24-month lease of a 2012 X5 35d with 15,000 miles per year are .00145 and 60%.
 
The numbers for an otherwise identical 36-month lease are .00145 and 54%.
 
I don't think that the 2013 X5 diesel is available yet.
 
There is a $4,500 credit on the 2012 model.
 
Car_man
Host
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

#1965 of 2262 Leased a X5 35d by bimmer24

Jul 12, 2012 (10:38 am)

Hi all,
 
Want to thank everyone for these boards which prove to be a critical resource in negotiating a fair price on a car, especially Car_man for all the information and perspective he provides.
 
I recently purchased an X5 35d from a northern NJ dealer. Terms were:
 
36 months 12k/yr miles
MSRP - 63,895
Final Purchase Price after all credits/rebates/dealer maneuvering - $52,800
Dealer also paid $1k to cover the last two payments of my existing 3 series lease
58% residual and .00185. I put down 7x MSD of $4200 to bring the MF to .00136. I already had $3500 in MSDs from my previous lease, so I just paid the delta of $700.
 
Monthly payment = $599/month inclusive of tax and no down payment
 
My total upfront was:
$725 for BMW FS
$300 DMV
$599 first month payment
$300 doc fee/dealer profit fee
$215 NJ luxury car tax (Thanks Gov. Christie for this gift)
$700 MSD delta described above (bringing my MSD balance to $4200)
 
Total outlay $2840
 
I had spent time looking at various dealers in the area and most refused to go this low. The dealer that had the most diesels remaining in stock (most only had 2-3 left, but one had 12) was perhaps the worst to deal with. With the dealer I purchased from, I did the entire deal over the phone, got the terms e-mailed to me in writing and went to the dealer that day to check the vehicle and do the paperwork.
 
This was all completed on July 6th. The last week with the car has exceeded my expectations. It drives like a BMW, has incredible torque, get's better gas mileage than my 3 series, comes with more options than I would ever need, and cost me less than what many people pay for an X3. The sound at idle and low speeds is not bad and anyone bothered by it shouldn't buy the car. I personally couldn't care less about it and find it to be negligible.
 
To make matters even better, my neighborhood Exxon gas station which always offered the cheapest prices, actually sells diesel gas for less than the price of plus and 30 cents less than premium. My biggest fear about getting the diesel was completely quelled knowing that the place I fill up more than 80% of the time would lead to reduced cost of gas for a big family truck that gets better mileage than my 3 series.
 
Seeing the July numbers make me feel even better about my purchase as the adjustments to residual and MF lead to almost a zero change in the financial aspects of the lease.
 
Love the car, loved the dealer experience I had, love the mileage I'm getting on this car, and love all the bells and whistles that make my wife happy. Happy to be a loyal BMW customer.

Messages Page 197 of 227

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