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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences BMW 5-Series Lease Questions
1982 messages, Last post on Sep 03, 2008 at 3:20 PM
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Replying to: asteinberg (Feb 21, 2006 7:35 pm) As someone said above, trying to make money in our capitalist, free market society is not a crime. Most of us don't go online and bad-mouth our local Wal-Mart or Best Buy when they mark up merchandise 200% or more!.... Granted, the dealer shouldn't lie in doing it, but it is not "slimy" or "fraudulent" to simply make money. As someone also said above, no bank or financial institution publishes its financing buy rates. It would be pretty dumb for a business to tell the public and make no money as a result. That is all banks... not just BMWFS. Your local bank might disclose "6.9% financing" on their website , but they are definitely making money on that (their "buy rate" might be more like 5.5% or 5.9%). Try going into your local bank and asking for their base buy rate... they'll probably just laugh you out the door. As for ordering a car and its delivery time, it is impossible to nail down an exact date like you are requesting. There are so many factors and variables involved. First, every model has a different production schedule and build time. Second, every dealer has different allocation, so one dealer might be able to get a car into production the next day, but another might not be able to get one in for two weeks. Third, once the car arrives at the port in Germany, it needs to wait for a ship to transport it across the Atlantic. Sometimes it has to wait one day and sometimes it has to wait two weeks. It all depends on the ship schedules and availability. Fourth, shipping time is slightly variable. Sometimes it'll take 2.5 weeks to transport, sometimes 3.5 weeks. It depends on weather, ship speed, and how many stops the ship has in between Germany and the US port. Fifth, transport time from the US port to your dealership is soooo variable. If you live in South Carolina (one of the US ports is Charleston, SC), then the car will probably get to your dealer within 2 days. If you live in Texas or Missouri or something, it'll probably take a couple weeks...... As you can see, BMW trying to tell you the exact date a car will arrive is impossible. That's why they give you an approximate range. That's not a "scheme"... It's the truth.
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Replying to: bdr127 (Feb 23, 2006 8:28 am) b/ I don't care how much money take make; my gripe is passing off their marked-up acquisitio nfee and MF as fixed by BMW FS. c/ Of course, I don't expect a bank to disclose its cost of money, although Fed Reserve Board discount rates, overnight rates avings rates are all published. But who cares about their cost or profit? Not I, if I'm borrowing money from them. I only care about what I pay them. The issue hee is that people BELIEVE (and dealers I dealt with encouraged me to believe) they are paying an official BMW FS rate, when it is, in fact, marked up. d/ Of course, I don't expect a precise date on delivery. I'm well aware of all the variables you cite. But barring a shipping strike, etc., I merely wanted a WINDOW (between x time and y time). It turns out I was given the WRONG delivery window between by the dealer. For example, BMW quotes a clear window to order a car for European delivery, and a clear window when it's shipped back. So, with me, they wre just being evasive, as on every question I asked BMW. ...I will get the car for performance, and because of the BMW subsidized lease, which makes it competitive. And I will hope for limited or no warranty repairs that exceed one day, since BMW, AS A COMPANY, does not provide free loaners.
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Replying to: asteinberg (Feb 25, 2006 9:24 am) And when I told my dealer that the rate he had in his estimate was .02 higher than what BMWFS told me, he confirm and immediately matched the BMWFS rate. BTW, no car company providers loaner cars. None! It is purely the dealer. You local Ford dealer is not owned by Ford, even if it is licensed to sell Ford. A manufacturer cannot dictate what the dealer can and cannot do, except to yank their license. Otherwise, its called monopolistic collusion. Again, all sounds pretty much like a poor dealership experience to me. And since you asked, I live NW of Chicago.
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Replying to: asteinberg (Feb 25, 2006 9:24 am) "A manufacturer may not own, operate, or control a dealership, including one primarily engaged in performing warranty work. However, a manufacturer-owned dealership is permissible: < While it is being sold under a bona fide contract or purchase option to the operator of the dealership; or < For up to two years during the transition from one owner or operator to another. A court may extend the two-year period for an additional year if the manufacturer proves good cause for the extension. A manufacturer may not sell a new vehicle directly to a retail customer other than a nonprofit organization or a government agency. However, a manufacturer may provide information to consumers for marketing purposes, and may establish a program to sell or offer new vehicles through its dealers. |
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Replying to: jvos (Feb 25, 2006 10:34 am) 2/ Wrong about other car companies. My past dealers told me that the company reimbured them for the loaners -- including rental cars, when warranty work went beyond a day.
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Replying to: asteinberg (Feb 25, 2006 12:30 pm) I guess I just don't see how any of your complaints reflect at all on BMW as a car company or BMWFS as a finance company. To each their own opinion though ...
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Replying to: jvos (Feb 25, 2006 12:50 pm) I can almost guarantee that most loans that we all have ever taken out (whether it be auto, home, personal, etc) were marked up so that someone made money. Did they all come out and say, "Hey, we're marking up this rate so we can make some extra profit." ?? Of course not... They don't have to, as it is a business's prerogative to make money. After all, it is a business. And this goes far beyond just BMWFS. No financial institution or dealer is required to give anyone the base MF and they aren't required to tell you that they're making money, so why shouldn't they at least try to make some money. If they charged more than their absolute bottom line zero profit invoice price on the car, would they have to explicitly tell you that they weren't giving that to you? This is, after all, a capitalist free market country.
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Replying to: bdr127 (Feb 25, 2006 3:06 pm) Rather, it is with the dealer telling me they are not making it up, when the dealer is. Of course, it's the dealer's prorogative to make money. But on leases, we've come a long way from when open-end leases, and form when you shopped for different leasing companies and banks. I spoke to several people who had the same misunderstanding as I, a misunderstanding fostered by BMW FS. As far as I'm concerned, they can charge whatever they want, for acquisition fee, or MF, and I don't care if they charge more than MSRP is someone wants to pay. You guys just don't get that my beef is with the deception and, even when questioned, not responding accurately. So, stop framing this as an attack on free markets, capitalism, profits, entrepreneurship, or the cost of money. Part of the free market is the ability to be informed -- and, for me, Edmunds performed that role. It's not the dealer's role to inform me of his profit, but I certainly do not have to condone his telling me something that is not so. As I said in my prior post, I don't begrudge anyone --dealer, finance company, bank, mortgage lender, charging more in interest than they pay for the money. Obviously. Nor should a financial institution or the dealer be REQUIRED to give their cost of money. Nor did I ever say that. I did feel that BMW FS should be open about it, and I did say that they were not, for a reason, to give their dealers an extra profit center. And, for you experts on capitalism and money and banking, let me remind you that the dealers are NOT loaning you their money, or loaning you anyone's money. They assume zero risk. It is BMW FS money. So, I don't think the comparisons are appropriate. They are not in the loan business, but in the car business. If they want to make their money by marking up BMW money, that's fine with me. Just don't tell me they are not marking it up, and this is THE BMW FS rate. It's not. Or, as one person on this website pointed out, he was told the actual BMW acquisition fee was for employees only, when obviously that's not the case, and the marked up acquisition fee was the fee. By the way, I'm not arguing dealers don't have a right to lie. But it's a free country, and I offer my observation that it's at least B.S. for those who do misrepresent -- and that is more than simply entrepreneurial salesmanship. None of it is momentous, but I wanted to reiterate my gripe is not the free market or profit or even salesmanship. And it's the consumer's obligation, I agree, to be informed; dealer is under no obligation to fully disclose markups --just don't blatantly mislead or even lie.
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Replying to: asteinberg (Feb 25, 2006 10:43 pm) |
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