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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences BMW 3-Series Lease Questions
3218 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 7:31 AM
You are in the Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum. Your Hosts are car_man & kyfdx
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Replying to: voldermort (Jan 30, 2008 7:27 pm) Deal #1: It's presented a little differently than we usually see, but it looks to me like you're getting an $1860 discount from MSRP (39,175 minus 37,315), your money factor and lease fee are not being marked up. Not a bad deal. Payment calculates out to about what he's giving you. Try to bargain him down further on the discount from MSRP. Deal #2: There's a problem in the way this is presented. How can the invoice price be more than the base MSRP? Assuming that's just an error, I also see that he's listing a markup of $750 versus the $450 from the other dealer. Dealers aren't usually that upfront about markups where I live, but it looks like #2 is marking it up $300 more than #1. Otherwise it looks similar to #1 but the money factor is bumped up 10 points, as stated. So that's why the payment is higher. That bump is dealer profit. Don't pay it. Otherwise they seem to be similar. #1 seems to be the better deal. If you want to, work with both of them and play them off against each other to get the best payment without letting them inflate other fees. |
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I am in the process of negotiating a lease on the above 335xi. MSRP on the loaded model I am looking at is 52,130; They are basing the lease on a discounted price of 50,610. With 2500 down, sales tax at 4426, 210 estimated tax, plus 50 documentation, estimated balance due is 52,796. Lease quotes are $879 (24 mo.) and $806 (36 mo.). I have never done a lease, and do not know whether I am being taken or not. They call the discount a preferred customer (am trading in previous purchased 2002 325), and it is supposedly a "Costco Customer price too...", but it still seems like the same 3% discount I was quoted online at other dealers...so am wondering if there is any room on this. BTW, the car I am looking at is now at Oxnard shipping destination, awaiting transit to Washington State...so it is not "on the lot". Would appreciate any advice or input. At this point, I have a $1000 refundable deposit in wiht them to get the car shipped up. Thanks Dawgfan1 |
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Replying to: boomer23 (Jan 30, 2008 8:27 pm) 
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Replying to: dawgfan1 (Jan 30, 2008 10:30 pm) A little basic info for you. The base money factor right now for the 335xi is .0021. The residuals are 71% for 24 months and 61% for 36 months. The residuals will vary slightly based on the number of miles per year. I don't know about Wa. taxing laws or tax rates, so I'll give you approximate payments without taxes and you can add sales tax to the payment if that is what is done in your state. With the base money factor of .0021 and a basic $625 bank fee rolled into the lease, the 36 month payment would be $639.57 without taxes. For 24 months, the payment would be $668.53. Even when you add taxes to these payments, they don't come near to the payments the dealer is quoting. Also, you're putting $2500 down. This is usually highly discouraged. One reason is that you lose all of that money if the car is stolen or totaled. So my advice is to get all of the details of the lease itemized and explained. You should try to get near to the base money factor. They are not allowed to add more than .0004 to the base money factor, but try get the base. Get all of the fees explained. Try not to pay any fees beyond a $625 bank fee, which may be rolled into the lease or paid up front. Other fees that they may be adding are mostly dealer profit. Don't put any money down. The discount from MSRP is fairly decent, but you may be able to negotiate that down as well. You may also make refundable security deposits (each equal to one month's payment) to reduce the money factor. You should definitely make one SD, because the MF increases .00015 unless you're already a BMWFS customer. But you can make up to 7 additional SDs, each of which will lower your MF by .00007. If you do the math, doing this will return you at least 10% on your investment. Consider working with more than one dealer. Get their best offers on a similar lease and work them against each other. You'll get a good idea of how low they will really go. If you're not up to the face-to-face negotiation, try emailing the internet managers at several dealers and ask them for their best offers on this car. Tell them you want a no money down lease at the base rate and at least a $1500 discount from MSRP. I think you'll see better payment offers than the ones you've quoted. Good luck.
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Replying to: boomer23 (Jan 30, 2008 11:22 pm) When doing a lease, recognizing I am talking about a car in relatively high demand (and apparently a generally low motivated dealer), what are the specific components of a lease that are negotiable. Obviously the monthly payment is one... (can you illustrate a for example of how the money factor plays into the calc?_) . What are some of the other factors? Is there any difference in the amount of money the car is worth at the end of the lease that will factor in, or that I can be blindsided by:? Thanks, this forum looks like a godsend. Dawgfan1
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This from a different dealer now: 328xi metallic cold premium auto ipod msrp 41325 cap cost 38805 mf .00175 3 yr/ 10k residual 64% monthly payment 510 out the door 2230. I'm thinking to move on this one. |
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Replying to: dawgfan1 (Jan 31, 2008 6:43 am) First, you need to know the residual (set by BMW) and the money factor on the lease of the car you're looking at. Residual is just the value of the car after the lease is over. It'll be a percentage, but convert it to a decimal. E.g., 64% residual = .64. Money factor is just a way to calculate your interest payments. Then, lease payments should be calculated as follows: Cap Cost * (1-.residual) / Term of Lease = Depreciation Cap Cost * (1+residual) / money factor = Interest Depreciation + Interest = Base monthly payment. Add on tax and there you have it. I typically negotiate lease deals based on cap cost, as if you were purchasing the car. If you negotiate based on monthly payment it's harder to identify the options on the car that are giving the dealer his profit. Also make sure your dealer is giving you the base rate money factor. Lots of dealers like to mark this up. |
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Replying to: dawgfan1 (Jan 31, 2008 6:43 am) To add to that, the negotiable factors are: - The cap cost (the negotiated price on the car, either a markup from invoice cost or a discount from MSRP). - The money factor (equals the APR of the financing divided by 24). As stated above, BMW sets this factor monthly, it varies by model and BMW only allows the dealers to mark it up by .0004. - Bank fee. Base bank fee is universally $625. BMW allows dealers to mark it up by up to $200. Can be paid up front or rolled into the lease, your choice. - Other fees. Often include "MACO" ( $300 to $400 regional advertising fee charged to the dealer by BMW, some dealers have to pay this, others don't, depends on their region and advertising practice), "training" ( about $150, dealers also pay this fee to BMW), "documentation" and others. Some or all of these can be negotiated down. Can be rolled into the lease or paid up front. - Down payment, "customer cash", "cap reduction". As often suggested, try to make this zero, for several reasons. - Security deposit(s). Generally, if you roll any agreed fees into the lease, the total cash due at inception would equal just the first month's payment, any security deposit(s), DMV tag fee, a few small service fees, state tire fee, etc, and in certain states, sales tax. Remember that the dealer has to make some money to be interested in your business. He'll make it through a combination of markup from his invoice cost, padding the money factor, padding the bank fee, and other fees that are pure profit. I personally got a $2800 discount from MSRP on my 328i coupe, but paid a $200 markup on the bank fee and a slightly higher MF, equal to about $10 a month dealer profit. Overall, I was satisfied with the deal because the cap cost was discounted enough to make up for the padded fees. |
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received this from dealer: "It is obvious you have access to BMW FS bulletins, listing the rates and residuals. You are also aware that I cannot actually contract a client above the .0040 basis point max markup. If you look at the bulletin effective dates, you will notice that it expired 1/2/08, the new bulletin I am allowed to contract by BMW FS to use expires 1/31/08, so the rates and residuals that I have sent you by email expire today. An itemized breakdown is below. Sales Price=$36,500 MSRP=$38,250 Residual=61% or $22185.00 Oklahoma Excise tax of 3.25% or $1186.25 Reg fees $90.75 Title fee $11 Inspection $21.75 Documentary fee $50 Security Deposit=$500 The total for fees and SD are $1859.75. Your $3000 will account for $1959.75, first payment of $499.93 and will actually put $540.32 towards the cap cost. One more item if we used the Money factor of .00205 and an residual of 58% your payment would actually increase by $23. This is due to the decrease residual." Note: I believe he used MF of .00215. I had them itemize the deal I posted from above and this is what I got. Is the MF still too high?
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Replying to: companyman21 (Jan 31, 2008 1:22 pm) Also, I've read on another site that the February rates will be the same as the January rates, so his pressure to sign today is bogus (unless you are leasing a 2007 car, 2007 rates end today. But the 2007 rates were lower). Also, the residual amount is set solidly by BMW and only varies based on your contracted miles per year. The dealer shouldn't be able to adjust the residual. Notice that you're still putting $540 towards the cap cost. I wouldn't do that. I'd tell him that he should reduce the cap cost by that amount and you'll keep your $540. If you're feeling uncomfortable about the inflated rates, down payment, etc, find another dealer, if you have them available. It might be worth driving 50 miles to get a better deal. |
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