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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences BMW 3-Series Lease Questions
3201 messages, Last post on Nov 30, 2009 at 7:58 PM
You are in the Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum. Your Hosts are car_man & kyfdx
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I'm trying to locate 335xi 36 month residuals for Dec. 10K = 64% 12K = 63% 15K = ??? Any idea on 15K?
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Replying to: emgunz (Dec 26, 2007 4:48 pm) |
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Replying to: frodriguez1 (Dec 27, 2007 12:23 pm)
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Close.. 12K is 1% lower than 10K 15K is 2% lower than 12K |
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Replying to: boomer23 (Dec 29, 2007 12:12 am) town (Tucson, AZ) yesterday. I'm posting the details here to see if my deal seems crazy, and to get validation that I wasn't incorrect in my calculations. Car Details: * 335i Sedan w/ 6spd manual + ZSP Sport Package + ZPP Premium Package + iDrive Navigation + iPod /USB Adapter + Metallic paint (color: Sparkling Graphite Metallic, interior Gray / Burl Walnut trim) (MSRP 46,900 including dest) Lease: 3 Year (36 Month) / 12k/year. $3000 out of pocket. After an hour of back and forth (they started out at $732 w/ tax), they came out with two pieces of paper with lease numbers on them. The first piece of paper had the dollar amounts for the lease, the second had stuff like taxes, money factor, residual on it. At one point I pulled out my PDA w/ pocket excel and wrote the #'s down off their sheet (not sure that they liked me doing that). I offered them $44900 ($2000 off MSRP) to start with. They "accepted" this but then added $825 to that for the "aquisition fee". ======================================================= Paper #1: Money Factor .0020, Residual 63%. Paper #2: Fees: Doc Fee $239 (bogus?) License $665 (this is accurate) Dwn Pmt Sales Tax $108 First Pmt $652 -------------------------- Total $1661 Lease Numbers: MSRP $46900 Sale Price $45725 -- they added an $825 aquisition fee here Residual Amount $29547 Capcost Reduction $1339 -- My 3k after taking out those fees. Net Cap Cost $44386 Depreciation fee $412 Finance Fee $188 --- This seems bogus to me! this is not  .0020 MF? Monthly Payment $652 ========================================================== Tax is 8.1%... At this point I argued that "Paper #2" must have not used .0020 as the money factor, in fact it looks like they used .0025. The salesman threw me a sheet of paper, actually a printout from edmunds.com, on how a lease is calculated and said "All leases are calculated the same, look for yourself, your calculations are wrong". So I told him to use his calculator and the formula on the paper he printed out: (Negotiated Price + Residual Value) * Money Factor = Finance Fee. He did and when it came out to $147 he put away the paper and said "well we don't do leases like that, we use the computer." and stepped away. At this point I think I pissed them off, he brought out the "general manager" who said he was "already feeling bad about this deal" and he had "never seen a price this low with so little profit in his 16 years at BMW". I told him I couldn't buy a car with these numbers not adding up, and he insisted along with the salesman that the MF was .0020 and I was wrong. So I walked. I dont think I was wrong.. besides the stupid fees, which I dont think are legit, They were doing two shady things: #1 -- not being truthful about the money factor #2 -- adding the aquisition fee to the negotiated price, which means it then increases the term depreciation! Fees dont depreciate, the car does. I really believe $590 a month is possible with $3k out of pocket, does that seem crazy?
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Replying to: kefler (Jan 01, 2008 12:23 pm) It doesn't really matter if they add it to the CAP cost, or you pay it out of the $3000, and your CAP reduction is smaller. The effect is the same. All charges, minus money upfront results in Net Cap Cost. Depreciation is Net CAP Cost minus Residual. It doesn't matter that the car depreciates, it's a mathematical formula. Doc fee-- Extra profit for the dealer.. a lot of dealers charge this. Money factor... Looks like they were marking it up the maximum to .0024, plus adding the .00015 security deposit waiver, for a total of .00255 They either don't know the money factors ("we just use the computer"), or they were lying to you ("we just use the computer"). Some salespeople have no idea what F&I does, what the mark-ups might be, etc... but, I can guarantee that the manager knows. I don't know if you can get to $590, but given your paramaters, and the $3K upfront, you should certainly be able to get to $600-$610 without any problem. Maybe you'll have to expand your search to Phoenix.. regards, kyfdx Host-Prices Paid Forums
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Replying to: kyfdx (Jan 01, 2008 7:17 pm) I'm just not happy that they would show a printout that said the MF was .0020 and then use .00255 when calculating the numbers. The problem with the situation is that they got "upset" about me telling them the #'s did not make sense. I dont want to accuse them of being dishonest (even though of course they will only be as honest as they absolutely have to be) but I just want them to lower the MF, or atleast say what they are using. One more question, do you know what the security deposit is? If it's refundable It might make sense to pay it and save the $10 or $11 a month. Thanks.
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