Last post on Jun 17, 2013 at 8:42 PM
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Audi A4, Car Leasing, Sedan, Wagon
#3833 of 4312 Re: 2012 A4 Prestige 2.0T manual, quattro, S line, Sports [nickr1]
Sep 27, 2011 (5:55 pm)
This is inaccurate and potentially costly information. There are bad lease deals just like there are bad purchases. Your example is a bad lease deal, but not knowing the money factor and residual would prevent you from knowing why it is bad.
For example, the 54% residual isn't very strong, but .00098 money factor is pretty good (equivalent to 2.35% interest). The biggest factors making this deal poor are the low residual and negotiated cost being way too high.
For example, using the same $38600 MSRP and $37590 negotiated price but using BMW's 64% residual being offered on the 2011 328i coupe and only first payment out of pocket, the monthly payment drops to $476.22 assuming 799 acquisition fee and 7.75% sales tax. Subtracting an additional $1000 from the negotiated price further drops the monthly payment to $445.23.
This would be a pretty good lease deal at $78/month less ($2808 over 36 months) and $2190 less out of pocket (first month payment only). By changing nothing but the residual value and negotiating a better deal on the car, your net spend over 3 years is $16,028, or a savings of $4912 over your example.
If you had any conquest or loyalty rebates, the deal would be even better. Obviously this isn't a currently offered deal, and the current Audi lease isn't very strong but my point is that the residual value and money factor are required to properly calculate and evaluate a lease deal. Anyone negotiating a lease should know these numbers before ever going to the dealer and at minimum have a lease calculator to check the dealer's numbers before signing papers.
#3834 of 4312 Re: 2012 A4 Prestige 2.0T manual, quattro, S line, Sports [nickr1]
Sep 28, 2011 (1:23 am)
I couldn't agree more with lound0q40oz! He/she has given you very sound advice. Not knowing the money factor and residual factor will render you helpless in any lease deal... it's the kiss of death. You stated that...
"Knowing the MF and residual did nothing to stop the dealer from offering a terrible and terribly high lease deal."
Absolutely true! However, you could have stopped the dealer from offering a "terrible and terribly high lease deal". So, for whatever it's worth, here's my advice...
Never allow a dealer to control the deal. Always prepare a one page lease proposal with all pertinent information and FAX/email it to the dealer. Every calculation, including monthly payment, must be spot-on accurate (to the penny). Otherwise, you risk losing credibility. You can view a sample lease proposal at...
All the Best,
#3835 of 4312 Re: 2012 A4 Prestige 2.0T manual, quattro, S line, Sports [loud0g40oz]
Sep 29, 2011 (4:41 pm)
Thanks. But these two replies basically prove my point, that dealers manipulate lease numbers in their favor even when you know the residual and MF don't add up. Yeah, you can tell him he's trying to rip you off or you can walk out but my point is it should be illegal for them to do it in the first place. Who wants to out a tricky salesman when trying to buy a car you love, what a downer. I wish I could buy from Audi direct and have my lawyer go over the lease deal for me. I feel like when it comes to new cars, especially luxury cars, people will do anything to get it, including ignoring how much money they are wasting. These cars are higher than down payments on houses!
As long as you can spec the same car at the same price with different dealers and get wildly varying lease prices and as long as dealers continue to manipulate the lease deals in their favor and as long as prices and lease deals are high for what the car is, then the only thing you can do is walk away.
I'm more in favor of getting transparency and the law on your side, or simply not leasing these terrible deals. It's so clear to me that 90% of the people on this forum and perhaps 90% of the people signing lease deals today are being duped and over charged and don't even know it. That has to change.
#3836 of 4312 Re: 2012 A4 Prestige 2.0T manual, quattro, S line, Sports [nickr1]
Sep 29, 2011 (9:46 pm)
Dealers can manipulate numbers all they like but it won't fly with me. If you allow dealers to manipulate numbers, then that's exactly what they will do. I simply do not tolerate it and have zero patience for those that do. After submitting my lease proposal, there are only two ways for a dealer to respond....
Yes, we can do the deal or, no, we can't do the deal.
If yes, then every single number in my lease proposal must be transferred onto the lease contract. Yup, they must use the numbers in my lease proposal to complete the lease agreement.
To be quite candid, I know just as much as anyone in the leasing industry when it comes to lease calculations. A dealer can't BS me because mathematics and actuarial science is my domain. I'm very proud of my track record having saved hundreds of people thousands dollars. I've been doing this, as a hobby, for many many years.
We don't need more legislation to protect society's dumb bells as it's costing taxpayers millions every year just to administrate. But, it's a two edge sword. What we're fighting is GREED and a very evil and corrupt government. I agree that the Federal Reserve Bank Board (Regulation M) should require that money factors and lease interest rates be legally disclosed as their needs to be accountability and transparency. But, this is life in America the Great and it's not likely to change anytime soon. Reulations M (Consumer Retail Leasing) and Z (Truth-in-Lending) are there primarily to protect people that are totally clueless. This is a nation of dumb bells and selfish people that thrive on scamming one another. Very few are willing to place the greater good above their own selfish interests and that's exactly why good 'ole America the Great will one day collapse. And, you can bank on it!
#3837 of 4312 Re: 2012 A4 Premium Plus Quattro [Car_man]
Sep 30, 2011 (2:43 pm)
Do these numbers change at all if you go with the FWD instead of Quattro?
#3838 of 4312 Re: 2012 A4 Prestige 2.0T manual, quattro, S line, Sports [nickr1]
Sep 30, 2011 (6:41 pm)
The replies do nothing to prove your point. With the huge amount of knowledge right at anyone's fingertips today, anyone that enters into an auto lease agreement without doing any research or verification of the dealer's numbers deserves what they get.
Even if the residual and money factor were disclosed in your scenario, the lessee likely wouldn't understand what the numbers meant, and would skip right over them. Why do I say that? Because anyone who doesn't take the time to understand what the numbers mean won't understand anyway.
Any remotely savvy car shopper can get the relevant information in minutes from this or many other sites. The dealer will usually readily disclose the numbers he is using in his quote before you even set foot into the dealership to sign the papers.
There is simply no excuse for someone to not have a fairly accurate idea of what a particular car is selling for at any given time and the current finance/lease deals available, and be able to make an educated offer on the car they want, then know to the penny what the vehicle will cost them...all before setting foot into the dealership.
Ain't technology great??
#3839 of 4312 lease rate for october 2011, carman
Oct 03, 2011 (1:53 pm)
what are the lease rates (money factor/residual ) for 2012 Audi A4 Premium plus model 10k/12k/15k 33/36/39 months for october 2011.
Thanks in advance
#3840 of 4312 Re: 2012 A4 Premium Plus Quattro [riverspiv]
by Car_man HOST
Oct 05, 2011 (4:00 pm)
I suspect that they do riverspiv. Let's see.
Audi Financial Services' September buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2012 A4 Sedan Premium Plus FWD with 15,000 miles per year are .00144 and 54%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its top credit tier.
The numbers for an otherwise identical 39 month lease are .00164 and 52%.
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
#3841 of 4312 Re: lease rate for october 2011, carman [dm46]
by Car_man HOST
Oct 05, 2011 (4:02 pm)
Hey dm46. Audi Financial Services' October buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 2012 A4 Premium Plus quattro with 15,000 miles per year are .00151 and 56%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its top credit tier.
The numbers for an otherwise identical 39 month lease are .00171 and 54%.
The residual values for leases with only 12,000 miles per year would be 2% and with only 10,000 miles per year would be 3% higher.
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
#3842 of 4312 Help on 2012 Audi A4
Oct 05, 2011 (4:46 pm)
Can someone help me on residual, money factor and payment on 48 months/15k miles. MSRP $36,230.