Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Audi A4 Lease Questions
3145 messages, Last post on Dec 04, 2009 at 11:32 PM
You are in the Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum. Your Hosts are car_man & kyfdx
|
Replying to: cars0153 (Jun 06, 2007 3:27 am) BTW, I have never seen a Southern California or Bay Area Audi dealers ad. I see them for Bimmers and Lexus all the time, but I never see them for Audi. The only thing they do is link some poor deal to the AudiUSA website. |
|
|
Replying to: raudiaudi (Jun 07, 2007 9:25 am) with a lease Audi has the risk. On a purchase you do!
|
|
| how to tell what are good numbers and what bad numbers im sure when you go into a dealer it can be overwhelming | |
|
Replying to: cars0153 (Jun 07, 2007 6:09 pm) |
|
|
Replying to: raudiaudi (Jun 08, 2007 7:55 am) Not necessary. Bad manners, too. Audi will not sell the car on buy-out price defined in lease agreement (residual value + remaining payments less interest) to anyone BUT the lessee. That is the difference he finds in Audi from other auto cos. Audi will quote a higher price if a 3rd party wants to buy the car. Other auto cos. in his research have indicated that a 3rd party could buy a car from them off of a lease to you at that agreed price and this would enable you to escape tax burden by having to buy the car and re-sell it to 3rd party.... The tax occuring twice refers to something that is true on most leased cars in most states. If I buy my Audi today I pay remaining tax owed and then if I sell it tomorrow to another party they pay the tax on the amount they pay me, too. That is not exclusive to Audi, though. There are clever ways to get around this in some states. What is exclusive to Audi according to the poster and guarantees this tax situation is their refusal to sell to a 3rd party for the same (possibly attractive) price as they have agreed to sell it to you in their lease agreement. It is not as though they get the tax money so it is just a way to encourage you to stay in the leased car by making it financially unattractive to get out of the lease. Either you have to buy the car and re-sell and pay tax or a 3rd party (non Audi dealer or your next door neighbor for example) has to pay more unattractive price to buy out from Audi and then they pay tax once on their transaction (if it is private party - but if it is a dealer - then no tax will be paid until the car is sold to another private party by dealer.) What part did you not understand?
|
|
|
Replying to: raudiaudi (Jun 08, 2007 7:55 am) Just don't call me in three years for help when you decide to buyout your lease from the "dealer" and finally figure out how the transaction will work. |
|
|
Replying to: audihorse (Jun 08, 2007 8:35 am) This will avoid tax liability on the lessee's part and allow the lessee to resell to a third party at the favorable lease buyout price (or higher to turn a profit). http://www.boe.ca.gov/pdf/reg1610.pdf Tax laws vary state to state however. |
|
|
Replying to: audihorse (Jun 08, 2007 8:35 am) Or, if the lease allows him to sell to a third party but at a higher buyout fee, he has to perform that contract term because ... he signed the contract. So if Audi wants to keep you in a lease for their business purposes (which I think we can assume they know better than the consumer), they can penalize him for breaching that lease by selling the car to a third party. Maybe some companies will let the lessee sell the car to some third schmoe for the remaining payments and residual, but the lessee will still owe them a fee. Otherwise, what is the incentive to stay in the lease? If Audi has violated the terms of the lease by requiring a higher buyout than the lawyer contracted for, then the lawyer has a cause of action against Audi. But it appears that Audi is not violating the lease as the lawyer does not mention litigating the issue (and if a lawyer would not litigate, who would?) Again, if they penalize him beyond the terms of the contract, the lessee has legal redress. Indeed, he could get attorney fees under truth in lending laws. http://consumerlawpage.com/article/common.shtml I don't think Raudi was following the tax argument of the lawyer. The lawyer is indeed hosed by the tax circumstances he got himself into. The lawyer never did respond to my suggestion to trade or sell the lease itself. As I said, if one don't understand the risks inherent in a lease or have an uncertain income ... one should not enter a lease.
|
|
|
Replying to: edwardsf (Jun 08, 2007 1:26 pm) He did not say he thought he had a case against Audi - just that he objected to their terms and would not lease again from them. |
|
|
Replying to: edwardsf (Jun 08, 2007 1:26 pm) You say: "What RaudiAudi (and I) don't understand is why the lawyer, who contends he knows about contracts because he is a lawyer of some sort, signed a contract which he can't comply with." Huh, when did I say that. Of course I can comply with the contract. The contract contains no terms stating that the buyout price will be different for a third party or dealer than it will be for the lessee, regardless of when that buyout is made. And, FWIW, so those reading can guage respective credibility of the posters, I am an attorney who drafts and negotiates contracts on behalf of businesses on a weekly basis. You said: "As previously pointed out, if the lawyer signed a contract he is bound by the conditions of that contract. If the lawyer chooses to sell the car in violation of the lease terms, the contract allows for Audi to penalize him in some manner - as all leasing companies do in one form or another." Selling the leased car, i.e. paying Audi the lease buyout price IS NOT A VIOLATION OF THE LEASE. Let me state again, a lease buyout is NOT A VIOLATION OF THE LEASE. To the contrary, it is explicitly authorized by the lease provisions. ALL LEASES allow you to buy out the lease at the end at the residual price. Virtually ALL LEASES allow you to buy out the lease prior to lease end by paying the residual plus remaining payments. Why do they? Because the money they make on the lease does not change based on whether you buy out the lease on day 1 or the last day. In fact, I am sure they would rather have you pay it all on day one, so they can access the money sooner rather than later. Since the interest is already built in to each payment, this would simply give them access to your capital sooner. You said: "If you can give me a cite or a link to a leasing company that does NOT penalize one for selling a car out of a lease, please do." First, it is not "penalizing" for selling a car out of lease. It is the practice of disparate lease buyout price (as stated in the lease terms) based on who the purchaser is. As for leasing companies that don't do this, Honda, Acura, Ford don't. From what I understand, a Ford dealer will do the third party buyout for you at no charge as a courtesy. When I inquired about Audi doing the same, multiple Audi dealers told me that Audi will jack up the price on them to. You said: "Or, if the lease allows him to sell to a third party but at a higher buyout fee, he has to perform that contract term because ... he signed the contract. So if Audi wants to keep you in a lease for their business purposes (which I think we can assume they know better than the consumer), they can penalize him for breaching that lease by selling the car to a third party." Again, you don't understand. First, the lease doesn't "allow" or disallow the lessee from selling the car to anyone for obvious reasons, as the lessee does not own the car, so inclusion of such a term would be nonsensical. Second, the lease does not "penalize" the lessee "for breaching the lease by selling the car to a third party". The lessee cannot sell the car without buying it first. Once the lessee buys the car, he or she can do whatever he or she likes, and Audi does not and could not penalize that transaction becuase they have no privity of contract with the third party. Moreover, the contract is silent as to the terms for selling the car to a dealer or third party, as opposed to selling it to the lessee. You said: "Maybe some companies will let the lessee sell the car to some third schmoe for the remaining payments and residual, but the lessee will still owe them a fee. Otherwise, what is the incentive to stay in the lease?" More nonsense. The buyout price is the buyout price, and most companies will allow you or a dealer or third party to buy the car out at the same price. The buyout terminates the lease. You don't own a "fee" after a lease buyout, regardless of the purchaser. That is why it is called a "buyout", not an early lease termination. You said: "If Audi has violated the terms of the lease by requiring a higher buyout than the lawyer contracted for, then the lawyer has a cause of action against Audi. But it appears that Audi is not violating the lease as the lawyer does not mention litigating the issue (and if a lawyer would not litigate, who would?) Again, if they penalize him beyond the terms of the contract, the lessee has legal redress. Indeed, he could get attorney fees under truth in lending laws." Complete misquote and fabrication. Not once did I state Audi was breaching the express terms of the contract. Please point out for all of us where I ever said that? You should choose your words more carefully. What I stated was that there is no provision in the contract explicitly stating that Audi will charge a dealer or third party more than the lessee for the identical privilege of buying the car from them. The contract is silent on that term. It is counterintuitive that Audi would do this, as evidenced by the fact that are so far the only company I have found that does this. It even angers Audi dealers. It is simply a policy designed to increase their bottom line. While Audi contracted to sell the car to you for X, they figure hey, why not try to get X + Y if we can, and we don't care at whose expense. That is a business decision Audi makes. Other leasing companies DO NOT. You said: "I don't think Raudi was following the tax argument of the lawyer. The lawyer is indeed hosed by the tax circumstances he got himself into. The lawyer never did respond to my suggestion to trade or sell the lease itself. As I said, if one don't understand the risks inherent in a lease or have an uncertain income ... one should not enter a lease." I am not "hosed" as you state due to the provisions of California law permitting one to avoid tax liability if a car is purchased for resale and the transaction is completed within ten days. However, many states do not have such a provision, and the complexity of the third party buyout and unfamiliarity with it (because of Audi's unique refusal to sell to a dealer or third party) by most lenders/dealers makes the transaction convoluted and time consuming. Moreover, when you say the "tax circumstances he got himself into" - you do realize you are talking about State tax laws that every lessee is subjected to right? This is not some special deal for me. Thus the reason for my post in the first place. |
|
You are here:
Forums
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Audi A4 Lease Questions
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
2010 Audi A4
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
