Last post on Jul 07, 2009 at 6:45 PM
You are in the Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars
What is this discussion about?
Alternative Fuels, Hybrid Cars
#9 of 18 The hype about hydrogen : fact and fiction in the race to save the climate
May 21, 2006 (6:15 pm)
Written by Dr. Joseph J. Romm ISBN 155963703x Very well written with sources from every area of science, physics, government, engineering and on and on and on.
Go to your local library and read the eye opening status. About hydrogen and the huge change needed to America's infrastructure, not to mention education of the public. Another problem is hydrogen is not a fuel source but a carrier of energy. Right now the major and easiest source is producing it from natural gas. However 36% of the energy in natural gas in lost in the conversation process. The electrolyses of water would be ideal and cost effective but only when nuclear fission is developed. Transporting is not very feasible since and tanker like we see today pressurized to 6000psi would only fill sixty fuel cell cars. So production would be on site and not nearly efficient.
The bottom line fuel cells for transport is more than 50-60 years off. Better use would be fuels cells is producing electric and heat for large buildings, factories and etc. initially from existing natural gas converted to hydrogen.
He has some notes about hybrids mostly bad and manufactures along with government getting serious. So far they are not trying, they can't even get enough E-85 pumps in the country let along talk think about fuel cells. The peaking oil production is only going to raise oil prices and what new sources are found are going to much more expensive to recover.
These is just tiny hints much better detail in the book.
Everyone should read to get the real story instead of all the marketing hype big business has created just to make a profit. For our grand kids and their kids are the poor recipients of a world of diminishing fossil energy. And I didn't even touch on the CO2 problem that goes hand in hand with future choices!
Thank you for your time.
Jun 01, 2006 (3:42 am)
Everywhere I go I see debate about the future direction of motoring. Full electric vs Hydrogen power cells vs hybrid vs etc.
It seems to me that most folk are missing the point. Over time we will strive to achieve two things. 1) Better fuel economy and 2) Lower emissions. Cost will only effect the speed at which change occurs because the most efficient systems will eventually be the cheapest.
What most of the electric and fuel cell supporters overlook is that many of us do a great deal of highway motoring rather than simply commuting to the office. A 1000 mile fuel cell or battery is a long way away. Banks of interchangeable cell units will never happen because of the financial outlay and space required by the average highway fuel stop. Not to mention the cost of security and theft prevention.
E and F might be OK options for a 20 mile trip to work and back but not long range work.
So we need to look closer to what is already available. Currently the most efficient cars are petrol hybrids followed pretty closely by the newer european diesel units.
Let's stay within the square but stretch it a little.
Lets now think biodiesel. It's clean and potentially quite cheap.
Lets now link that with hybrid technology. Hybrid technology doesn't do anything all that wonderful. It simply reduces fuel usage at inefficient times (traffic lights, traffic jams and downhill runs) while putting some excess energy back into a semi-efficient battery so a car can pretend to be an electric vehicle while the battery is fully charged and speed is low.
Lets now also imagine that the advances made by our electric enthusiasts can extend the capacity of our bio-diesel hybrid's battery, perhaps even to the stage that we could plug it into mains power overnight for a commute to work tomorrow.
Let's then imagine a solar panel that could help charge the battery while we were actually on the highway or parked at the shopping centre.
And finally lets assume that some of the hydrogen injection gadgets actually worked and include one or a couple of those.
The end result might well be a 1000 mile tank that was powered by canola oil, sunshine and water. For about $5.00 a tank.
I want one now!!!!
#11 of 18 Re: Aint it obvious? [mvandergoot]
Jun 02, 2006 (1:59 am)
How about bio-diesel from algae? Of all the technologies with any potential, genetically manipulated algae looks to have the highest production capabilities.
A short term fix is going to require some sacrifices (more than acceptable IMHO). We need plug-in battery-electric vehicles that can run 40 miles on the battery alone. Most people drive less than 40 miles a day and would have no problem "plugging in" at night when electrical demand is lower. Several aftermarket companies are already focusing on this solution. Imagine if the major automakers did the same.
#13 of 18 Re: Aint it obvious? [cs1992]
Apr 22, 2009 (11:02 am)
Okay...less than 2 years later we have a demonstrated PEHV ...40 miles electric, 33 HWY after that. In a SUV or light pickup no less. I like this idea...12 gallon tank for trips and after the overnight charge is gone. 360 miles on gas + the original 40 on battery... Range of 400 miles. Runs of electricity all the time, using either battery or 2.0 L IC to run a generator. Demonstated at the SAE show this week. They used a Hummer but the system would fit other SUVs and light trucks. Raser has an order from PG&E for 2 of these for testing.
I like this idea since my normal communte is about 40 miles, then the golf course is about the same on weekends. This could cut my gas usage to little or nothing on a normal basis. Even when running on the generator 33 MPG is double the normal mileage.
#15 of 18 Moving az to Boston
Jun 18, 2009 (3:43 am)
I am moving in just under 4 weeks and have yet to find a place to move with. I am leaning towards ABF since we don't have much stuff (1 bedroom apt with not much stuff at all) I don't mind packing my own stuff. Mayflower is charging an arm and a leg and I can't afford to pay much. Does anyone have any insight on ABF or other good moving company’s?
#16 of 18 Re: Moving az to Boston [mniks]
by Kirstie@Edmunds HOST
Jun 18, 2009 (4:52 am)
Our forums focus on purchasing vehicles, and the vehicle ownership experience. This really isn't a good place to find feedback on moving companies. You should perhaps check angieslist, or craigslist.org instead.
#18 of 18 Re: Interim solution [edaisyf]
Jul 07, 2009 (6:45 pm)
The HHO technology has bee proven repeatedly to be an absolute scam. Forget about it.