Last post on Apr 01, 2007 at 11:47 AM
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BMW M6, Coupe, Convertible
#13 of 16 Re: 2007 BMW M6 Cabrio [alex12342011]
Aug 07, 2006 (12:20 pm)
I can understand your excitement about the M6 - it is a beast. But talking about taking out a piece of equipment required by US Federal law and making claims about the M6 beating a motorcycle border on silly.
If you have proof of an M6 beating out a motorcycle (video preferred) I'd sure like to see it. I could see it perhaps beating some cycle cruisers or such, but put it up against a crotch rocket and there is NO WAY.
Taking out the limiters I can see being done, perhaps by Dinan.
Exhaust and intake mods will give you some power, but you'll get more results from the chip and limiter changes than you will exhaust and intake.
While I would LOVE an M6 Cabrio, the reality is you cannot put it on any sanctioned track due to insurance liabilities. So if you can't track it, where can you LEGALLY drive it to its potential? If I were to get an M6, I'd go with the coupe version, if for no other reason than to be able to track it and drive it in a controlled arena where I don't have to worry about Joe Isuzu getting in the way while drinking his Starbucks and talking on his cell phone.
#14 of 16 Re: 2007 BMW M6 Cabrio [alex12342011]
Sep 14, 2006 (8:41 am)
Your enthusiasm for the M6 is beyond its capabilities.
I own a 2003 M5 and was one of 450 original M1 owners. So I probably have twice as many years of experience with owning "M" cars as 99.9% of other BMW "enthusiasts".
The M6 is a fine GT car. It is not a sports car. My 4,000 lb 2003 M5 would give it a run for it's money on a slalom course or twisty mountain road. In fact, given that mine is a 6-speed manual, it would probably win in everything but a drag race. Upshifting the M5/M6 7-speed SMG is fine, downshifting or going back and forth in corners is not.
The new M5/M6 have 500 hp, but "only" 383 ft lbs of torque. My 2003 M5 has 400 hp/ 369 ft-lbs. The Porsche Turbo I have coming next month is rated at 480 hp, but 505 ft lbs of torque with overboost. And it is a half ton lighter than the M6. The Porsche Turbo - at $128k with options, by the way - is devestatingly quicker, faster and better handling than the M6. Period. I have had both on a track and say that from 100% personal experience, as a BMW enthusiast and owner, not a speculative video watcher or magazine reader.
Compare the M6 to a SL55/SL65 or some other 2+ ton GT. But don't compare it to a true sports car like the Turbo or Ferrari 430 or it will come up looking like less of a car than it really is.
#15 of 16 habitat and mr sprit are morons
Apr 01, 2007 (12:52 am)
just reading through places where habitat1 and spiritinthesky have posted and i'm starting to conclude that these two fellows are both total idiots -- they care so much about proving something the rest of the world has already agreed with and moved past that i'm surprised either one accepted 2+2 is 4 (in the system we use anyway) long enough to get out of elementary school and make enough money to afford a porsche in the first place. of course maybe you're both hitmen and didn't make it out of grade school and i should shut up before i say something stupid...too late.
hey guys, there's this thing called a timer - they invented it so insecure, egotistical, sexually inadequate males wouldn't walk around trying to convince the rest of us that they too had joined the real man's club (or woman's club) by buying the fastest car currently on the market. guess what guys...something better will come along.
so, because being so utterly concerned with what car is the fastest is such a waste of time and energy, then just buy whatever you can afford and like the best. if what you end up with is also the fastest, then good for you.
the m6 is a very fast, capable car and i like it. my wife likes it, my neighbors like it, beautiful women on the street like it, and it puts a big smile on my face when i'm driving it.
if you guys are so obsessed with the track and performance numbers, why aren't either of you race car drivers? oh...what, i didn't catch that...you aren't good enough you said? i know people who can outdrive either one of you fools in a go-kart.
in other words, if you don't have anything to contibute beyond just bashing people you think you know better than, then shut the **** up and go drive your precious cars. we get it...you can't stand the M6. there's plenty of us who love this car, so go take your shrivelled members and go pee on someone else's head.
by the way, mr. spirit, if you wanna focus on debunking crazy talk you only need to look in the mirror and open your mouth -- any current M5 or M6 would run circles around your sorry butt in your last gen M5. after i get my car tuned and delimited, you'll have a hard time getting away from me in your manhood-compensation device too. oh wait, that's until i pass you...remember? my piece of crap can easily break 200 m/h and by the way, it's got something that the 997 turbo doesn't ... a soul. if you want a real porsche, get a gt3.
#16 of 16 ...and a bit more
Apr 01, 2007 (11:47 am)
OK admittedly that last little jibe about speed might detract from the strength of the argument I was making in my previous post, but some 997 Turbo owners seem to be such speed freaks that I was only trying to take their egos down a notch. Then I realized it was a lost cause ... They already know they're among the fastest for now so why bother? Besides, it was late, I was a bit drunk, and I wast posting from a PDA ... so please forgive me.
Those of you looking to buy an M5 or M6 -- YOU ARE NOT BUYING A SPORTS CAR! There, I said it. Now those of you still interested ... you're buying a pumped up family sedan or a luxury coupe with some very impressive abilites. Since Porsche is a real sports car you can't compare yourselves to it because even though it's still a car, well ... you just can't OK ... it bothers Porsche people? Well, in that case ... keep doing it.
And no, I'm really not trying to goad spiritinthesky or habitat1 by posting again (though I guess I hope they'll bite a little), and I'm not trying to be pendantic either. Basically I just wanted to add a couple of things.
If BMW wanted to make a sports car, they undoubtably could. Look at what they did with the M3 CSL ... basically the same car as the M3 with some modifications, and it put down an amazing lap on the Nuerburgring -- one to rival even those of porsche -- just think what would happen if they designed a car singlemindedly with the goal of minimizing lap times: they would probably screw it up a couple of times, and then get it right. People would probably compare them to Porsches, and Ferraris, and pick on their looks, or whatever ... But obviously they know their "supercars", being big luxury cars, foremost, aren't going to be taking on a GT3 Cup car anytime soon. Remember, Porsche's not the only one who wins professional races. And BMW did build the engine for the one-time fastest car in the world ... the McLaren F1.
What was BMW trying to do then? Well, they were trying to look within themselves and forward, and commit to leather and steel and silicon their visions of the future. But it is an M Car afterall, the best cars they make, so performance and handling had to be part of it too.
No, BMW hasn't chosen to take one ideal of a sports car and refine it constantly over 40 years, a very commendable effort by Porsche, especially given what their cars started out as, by the way. And maybe BMW has done a great job capturing the future, and maybe they have fallen short in a couple of areas -- I have my own critiques about the current M cars for sure. But what they have done requires great risk and many challenges on their parts, and what's come of it are two amazing cars, and hopefully enough lessons learned to build many great cars to come.
Besides ... ask yourselves which cars saved Porsche ... it probably wasn't the 911. Indeed, Porsche seemed to be in trouble a few years back until they introduced the Cayenne and Boxster and reinvented themselves to a large part of the market.
So, if you follow this thinking through ... maybe at the top BMW's vision and Porsche's visions are different. Drivers wanting a Porsche should buy a Porsche, and drivers wanting a BMW should buy that, and those who are uncertain should test both to see which one they identify with more.
I think Porsche is coming to realize, slowly, that their committment to bringing track cars to the street might need some revising, given that their most "idealized" expression of a supercar is the mid-engined V10 Carrera GT and not rear-engined flat 6. BMW ... when are you going to build a mid-engined two seater supercar by the way? Please put your S85 motor in it when you do. We love it!
I think it's also a shame, if it's true, that the heresay that they've been crippling the boxster and cayman so they don't directly compete with the 911. BMW isn't as guilty of this ... they make the 650 and the M6. The 550 and the M5. Frankly, I'd love to see a Cayman Turbo.
As much as I love the 911's, and though I'd probably still buy one over a cayman or boxster, Porsche is definitely headed in some interesting directions. I hear some of their engineers are begging them to go mid-engined with the 911's. I also hear that they are working on a flat-8 to allow them to break the 4 liter mark.
Technology and engineering are different now than they were 40 years ago, we know things now that we then didn't, and some undoubtedly feel we have forgotten things that we should have learned all to well back then ... not to let technology and progress get in the way of the road. Both BMW and Porsche are very mindful of this. And like it or not, in the next 40 years, both manufacturers are going to come up with very different visions of the future. If Porsche manages to make it through the next 40 years with a rear-engined flat 6 with minimal technology as their premier sports car, then I'll surely commend them. I commend them now but if they do change paradigms, will it take them 40 years to get the bugs out of it too?
I'm sure that both BMW and Porsche study their markets very differently when building cars ... they would have a very bad business model if they didn't ... and both can identify their target segments very clearly.
The fact that BMW has built a family sedan and a luxury coupe that constantly get thrown up against some of the finest exotics is no small feat. And the fact they did this with a fair amount of grace and civility is a testament to their success. The fact that Porsche is building SUV's and roadsters to target the masses is too proof that not everyone is obsessed with track numbers.
So, once again, we like this car ... the M6. BMW please put a faster CPU in the IDrive computer and build that M6 CSL you were talking about -- and bring it to the states.