Last post on Jul 16, 2009 at 4:31 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Chevrolet Cobalt, Ford Focus, Honda Civic, Hyundai Elantra, Honda Fit, Mazda MAZDA3, Toyota Corolla, Toyota Yaris, Nissan Sentra, Sedan
#524 of 1205 Re: Car and Driver comparison [mz6greyghost]
Nov 08, 2006 (11:57 am)
I like how the Mazda3 still did very well, despite being the second-oldest design in that group. I'd take one over any others in that group in a heartbeat.
The Mazda 3 is definitely a diamond in the rough of compact cars for sporty shoppers. The article cites tire noise, something I noticed on a friend's 2004 3s sedan that also has 17" wheels. The tires are Noisy with a capital N relative to the Civic. On the other hand, the Civic's styling is incredibly polarizing. While it appears to have hurt it in the testing, I'm glad to see Honda step out and take a risk on styling instead of being bland!
#525 of 1205 Re: Car and Driver comparison [mz6greyghost]
Nov 08, 2006 (12:01 pm)
Hint: the winner of a comparo of "six $18k sedans" was... NOT a sedan.
I think that, given C/D's preferences, the finishing order was predictable (except their calling the Mazda3s "too sporty"), although I too was surprised to see the Sentra in last place. IMO it is far superior to the Corolla except in fuel economy.
As often happens in these comparos, they don't stick to their own rules. They set out to test sedans that sticker under $18k, so what do they do? Three of the cars stickered OVER $18k (and there was no way of avoiding it with the Mazda3s Touring), and one of the cars wasn't even a sedan! Predictably, the most expensive cars finished on top. Although that probably made little difference here, as anyone could have predicted that the sharpest-handling cars would finish on top, as they always do in a C/D comparo.
#526 of 1205 Re: Car and Driver comparison [backy]
Nov 08, 2006 (12:04 pm)
Although that probably made little difference here, as anyone could have predicted that the sharpest-handling cars would finish on top, as they always do in a C/D comparo.
Yes, but remember who the target readers are, 'car enthusiasts.' People who read the magazine are much more likely to prefer a good handling car over a soft-riding one. I really believe that C&D and Motor Trend DO put a bias towards good handlers, but I don't think it is much of a secret.
I was happy to see the Civic NOT completely loaded like every Honda they ever test seems to be. This one came in UNDER the price cap, AMAZING!
#527 of 1205 Re: Car and Driver comparison [thegraduate]
Nov 08, 2006 (12:06 pm)
True on the Civic, but had they equipped the Elantra similarly to the Civic (i.e. GLS trim) it would have cost only $15.5k, well under all the others in the test.
#528 of 1205 Re: Car and Driver comparison [backy]
Nov 08, 2006 (12:09 pm)
It was better equipped than the Civic AND was cheaper than the others... I think the Elantra made a great showing for itself, despite the ranking.
#529 of 1205 Re: Car and Driver comparison [backy]
Nov 08, 2006 (1:05 pm)
You should read the editorial by Csere in the same issue. Fleet vehicles are decreasing, and it is often very difficult to find samples with precisely the right equipment. As noted in the actual text, neither GM nor Ford could produce anything in stick for the comparo, though I doubt either the Cobalt or Focus would have finished highly, (esp. given that the Focus finished behind the Corolla in the LAST - Nov '02 - small car comparo).
Had Mazda been able to supply a $17,685 3s Sport instead of Touring, I doubt if things would have changed, and price was one of the dings that C/D listed against the Mazda anyway. The Sentra also crossed the $18K threshold but finished last, so I don't agree that the most expensive cars finished on top.
Have you driven the new Sentra? I haven't yet, but I was really surprised to see its last place finish, behind the Corolla which debuted in March '02 - a full 16 months before the next oldest Mazda 3 (which would have been my personal choice, given that I disagree with V-Dubs use of a thirsty and none-too-powerful 5 cylinder).
For what its worth, and for those that haven't received their C/Ds, this comparo has been on their website since yesterday, which is why I initially mentioned it.
#530 of 1205 Re: Car and Driver comparison [alpha01]
Nov 08, 2006 (1:19 pm)
They could go out and buy a car if the manufacturer can't supply one. That is what some other organizations that do car reviews do.
Maybe the Mazda3i Touring, with its 16" wheels, wouldn't have been considered "too sporty" by C/D, and the price would have easily fallen within the $18k limit--as would the Mazda3s Sport.
The Sentra was only over $18k because of the equipment on it. The 2.0S easily fits under $18k with a modicum of equipment such as ABS.
I did drive the new Sentra and posted a review in the Sentra vs. Elantra discussion (because I compared it to the Elantra). I really can't understand why they ranked it below the Corolla, unless they really hate its styling that much.
#531 of 1205 Re: Car and Driver comparison [backy]
Nov 08, 2006 (2:43 pm)
"They could go out and buy a car if the manufacturer can't supply one. That is what some other organizations that do car reviews do."
Besides non-profit, no-ad Consumers Union, I can't think of any publication, print or otherwise, that does this for their regular Road Tests or Comparisons.
They could also ORDER direct from the factory, I suppose, but really, there are limits to practicality.
For what it was worth, I think they did a fine job reviewing a decently level playing field. The ratings and text do a pretty good job of explaining how the Sentra rated below the ancient Corolla, and it was obviously more than styling.
Nov 08, 2006 (2:46 pm)
$18,883 for a new 2007 Camry CE automatic at Carmax.
Very good choice for a economy sedan IMHO.
#533 of 1205 Re: Car and Driver comparison [alpha01]
Nov 08, 2006 (5:28 pm)
some keep drinking that c/d koolaid.
i used to, but gave up. my life is much better now.
so, alpha, which of the comparo cars have you driven?