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Economy Sedans (~$16k-$20k)

1205 messages,  Last post on Jul 16, 2009 at 5:31 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Chevrolet Cobalt, Ford Focus, Honda Civic, Hyundai Elantra, Honda Fit, Mazda MAZDA3, Toyota Corolla, Toyota Yaris, Nissan Sentra, Sedan

Messages Page 42 of 122

#404 of 1205 Re: Hyundai DROPS 3 places to 23rd place in 2006 JD POWER VDS [backy] by germancarfan1

Aug 10, 2006 (6:57 pm)

Replying to: backy (Aug 10, 2006 4:59 pm)
Perhaps you should reread the 2006 VDS (and not quote the 2005). There is NO mention of Hyundai. The fact that Hyundai has FALLEN 3 places (as compared with 2005 results)from 20th place (2005) to 23rd place (2006) shows that Hyundai is NOT improving as compared with other brands. For the record, Hyundai improved a grand total of 7 PP100 from 2005, a lovely 2.7%, BELOW the industry average improvement of 4.2%.
 
Perhaps all those Elantra shimmy problems finally caught up with them.
 
"So it looks like some makers of economy sedans are making great strides in improving their short- and long-term quality, while other brands... well, not as much."
 
Really?
Hyundai (23rd) 2.7%
 
Toyota (5th) 7.7%
Honda (7th) 3.5%
Nissan (20th) 12.0%
 

#405 of 1205 These reports are nothing more than fodder by iluvmysephia1

Aug 10, 2006 (8:45 pm)

for shaking at Super Bowl referees. In other words, they're worth enough to me to take and roll them up and shake them at referees, much like Bobby Knight would do while coaching Indiana Hoosier basketball.
 
Let me break it to you this way. I have bought two new Kia's in a row and nary a single press release regarding new Kia car quality (initial or otherwise) has ever persuaded me one teeny-weenie iota into wanting to buy a VW, Subaru, Toyota, Hyundai, Saab, Mitsubishi, Volvo, Merceds-Benz, BMW, Daimler-Chrysler, Ford, Honda, Nissan, Isuzu or...or..did I leave one out? Do ya get my point?
 
Who reads these things and takes them seriously? I mean re-he-ha-he-ha-he-haa-ree-eee-aaaaaaaa-lllll-yyyyyyyyyyyyyy! Dumb and even dumber at half the cost. I know one thing, I will never buy a new VW from anybody, including Kobe Bryant.

#406 of 1205 Re: Hyundai DROPS 3 places to 23rd place in 2006 JD POWER VDS [germancarfan1] by joe97

Aug 11, 2006 (4:40 am)

Replying to: germancarfan1 (Aug 10, 2006 6:57 pm)
Are you just about finished with your irrelevant (to this thread) propaganda?
 
The press release (06) does mention Kia as being one of the two most improved brands in the study. "Kia has improved twice as much as any other brands in the past three years, improving 87PP100 (22 percent) from 2005". Signs of improvement despite being ranked in the bottom of the group - one of its models are ranked in the top three in sub-compact.

#407 of 1205 Re: These reports are nothing more than fodder [iluvmysephia1] by germancarfan1

Aug 11, 2006 (5:40 am)

Replying to: iluvmysephia1 (Aug 10, 2006 8:45 pm)
"I have bought two new Kia's in a row and nary a single press release regarding new Kia car quality (initial or otherwise) has ever persuaded me one teeny-weenie iota into wanting to buy a VW, Subaru, Toyota, Hyundai, Saab, Mitsubishi, Volvo, Merceds-Benz, BMW, Daimler-Chrysler, Ford, Honda, Nissan, Isuzu or...or..did I leave one out? Do ya get my point?"
 
Probably because press releases are incapable of depositing more money into your bank account

#408 of 1205 Re: Hyundai DROPS 3 places to 23rd place in 2006 JD POWER VDS [joe97] by germancarfan1

Aug 11, 2006 (5:43 am)

Replying to: joe97 (Aug 11, 2006 4:40 am)
"Are you just about finished with your irrelevant (to this thread) propaganda?"
 
I fail to see how posting reliability information for a brand highly discussed on this board who produces many cars in the $16-20K price range is irrelevant. And since when is JD Power's survey's "propaganda?" It's only "propaganda" when it doesn't show Hyundai is a great light, right?

#409 of 1205 Re: Hyundai DROPS 3 places to 23rd place in 2006 JD POWER VDS [germancarfan1] by backy

Aug 11, 2006 (6:24 am)

Replying to: germancarfan1 (Aug 10, 2006 6:57 pm)
Well, it really would have helped had I clicked on the right link!
 
So in other words, over the past two years Hyundai has improved its VDS score about 34%. How does that compare to other makes over the same period? Hyundai was 0.8% behind Honda's improvement for the 2006 study. That is bad? If so, it's bad for Honda too I guess.
 
Also consider that as of this fall, the only design that was included in the 2006 VDS that Hyundai will still be selling is the low-volume Tiburon. And Hyundai's biggest U.S. seller is being made in a factory that didn't start making cars until 2005. So the VDS for 2006 models and beyond will be very interesting to see.

#410 of 1205 Re: Hyundai DROPS 3 places to 23rd place in 2006 JD POWER VDS [germancarfan by dc_driver

Aug 11, 2006 (6:43 am)

Replying to: germancarfan1 (Aug 11, 2006 5:43 am)
I have never been a big fan of JD Powers surveys. Can anyone tell me what the sample size is for them to determine this? I believe it is about 60K vehicles. I tend to trust Consumer Reports reliability rating more than JD since they have a much larger sample size (over 1 million surveys per year).
 
That said, I do not really know what to make of this. In the sub-compact car segment, Kia and Hyundai each had one car in the top three. In the compact segment (closer to the 16-20 range), Honda and Toyota dominated. I would like to know how companies ranked in the compact car segment to determine the impact to the 16-20K range. Perhaps Kia and Hyundai finished 4th and 5th..

#411 of 1205 Re: Hyundai DROPS 3 places to 23rd place in 2006 JD POWER VDS [germancarfan by z71bill

Aug 11, 2006 (8:02 am)

A sample size change from 60,000 to 1,000,000 - would be statistically insignificant. I don't know if 60,000 or 1,000,000 are the actual sample sizes - but even a sample size of 6,000 would be considered VERY large from a statistical point of view.
 
I don't feel like doing the math (any statistic teachers out there?) - but going from a sample size of "only" 6,000 up to a sample size of 1,000,000 would increase your confidence in the results by a small amount. Maybe from 99.5% confidence your results are within 1 standard deviation up to 99.6% confidence your result is within one standard deviation.
 
Look at the polling results you see on the news - they normally only sample 1,000 people out of a population of almost 300,000,000 and the margin of error is only 3-4 %.
 
The problem with Hyundai is its a Hyundai - when they first came to market all they had was cheap junk - and it will take a long time to change people's opinion.
 
Ask 1,000 people - if you win the lotto what car would you buy - do you think Hyundai would even get 1 vote? That is statistically significant.

#412 of 1205 Accord VP by benjaminh

Aug 11, 2006 (8:19 am)

For a car less than 20k, it's hard to beat the Accord. There's only one model that lists for less than 20, the VP, which lists for $18,775 for the 5-speed manual. For that price, however, you get 6 airbags, a very advanced engine, stereo, cruise, ac, etc. I've seen this car advertised for sale at a local dealer for $16950. The Accord SE adds a 6-CD changer, alloys, larger tires, EBD, illuminated visor mirrors, steering wheel radio controls, etc, etc.. The list price on this car is 21,225, but I've heard that the last of the 2006's can be had for at or even under invoice, which is about 19,200. It'd be tough to top that for the price.

#413 of 1205 Re: Hyundai DROPS 3 places to 23rd place in 2006 JD POWER VDS [germancarfan [z71bill] by backy

Aug 11, 2006 (8:45 am)

Replying to: z71bill (Aug 11, 2006 8:02 am)
Hullo, this is a discussion about "economy sedans." If someone won the lotto, do you think ANY economy sedan would get a vote?
 
How many "votes" does Hyundai (in this case, the Elantra) get each year compared to cars like the Mazda3? Does the fact that the Elantra gets more "votes" than the Mazda3 make the Elantra a better car than the Mazda3? I don't think so.

Messages Page 42 of 122

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