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Economy Sedans (~$16k-$20k)

1205 messages,  Last post on Jul 16, 2009 at 5:31 PM

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What is this discussion about? Chevrolet Cobalt, Ford Focus, Honda Civic, Hyundai Elantra, Honda Fit, Mazda MAZDA3, Toyota Corolla, Toyota Yaris, Nissan Sentra, Sedan

Messages Page 37 of 121

#356 of 1205 Re: Backy [germancarfan1] by backy

Jun 25, 2006 (10:55 am)

Replying to: germancarfan1 (Jun 25, 2006 8:50 am)
Interesting you would cite a study (2005 JD Power VDS) that shows VW fourteen spots worse than Hyundai. I'm not sure what you are trying to show there except perhaps that Hyundai as a brand is much more reliable than VW. And the gap from Honda to Hyundai is significantly smaller than the gap between Hyundai and VW. So it appears VW has a much more catching up to do in long-term reliability than does Hyundai.
 
So if I were playing percentages on reliability in this class, based on the JD Power 2005 VDS, the order would be:
 
Corolla
Civic
Focus (and Fusion S?)
Cobalt (and Malibu?)
ION (discontinued after 2006)
Mazda3
Elantra (and Sonata GLS?)
Impreza
Caliber
Sentra
Lancer
Aerio (and Forenza?)
Jetta
Spectra
 
I can't stand the driving position of the Corolla, the Civic is a very good car but IMO overpriced, the Cobalt has insufficient room in the backseat and other major deficiencies, and the ION is going away soon (plus just isn't a very good car IMO). So that leaves the Mazda3 and Elantra at the top of my "consider" list in this class. The Jetta is a very good car also, albeit with the reliability history issue, but if I were to go that route it would be with the lower-priced and more versatile Rabbit.

#357 of 1205 Re: Backy [germancarfan1] by joe97

Jun 25, 2006 (11:12 am)

Replying to: germancarfan1 (Jun 25, 2006 8:50 am)
In all fairness and reference to your JD Power VDS citings, almost every automaker improved in their ratings - Hyundai +115 to 260 (middle of the pack); VW +51 to 335 (bottom five); Kia +35 to 397 (bottom five). Hyundai is coming very close to the industry average (2005 - shy of 23 at 237). What you fail to mention is Hyundai's dramatic improvement in quality and reliabilty, such as above and 3rd place overall finish in the most recent IQS study. VW, however, is still at the bottom of the barrel in important studies such as IQS, VDS, and Customer Retention.

#358 of 1205 Let's compare by dc_driver

Jun 25, 2006 (12:32 pm)

I have owned a 99 VW Jetta (V6) and now own a 06 Mazda 3i Touring model. Even though I did not consider VW again after my Jetta, let's see how the 06 Jetta (VE) and 06 Mazda 3i Touring models stack up..
 
Using the invoice price (since it is easy to get invoice on both vehicles if you are a smart shopper), here is what you get:
 
Mazda 3i Touring (5sp MAT): Base invoice price including destination = $15,535
VW Jetta VE (5sp MAT): Base invoice price including destination = $17,679
 
So, just to be fair to the Mazda, what does the extra $2K plus get you.. Invoice for a 3i Touring with 6 disc changer/power sunroof,all weather floor mats, rear lip spoiler, side airbags+ABS upgrade, and wheel locks still comes in at $17,100...
 
Now lets compare the vehicles. Although the VW has the same horsepower and more torque (150hp each, VW has 170lbs/ft torque to the 3's 135lb ft), the VW also weighs over 500lbs more. On the track, the 3i clocks 0-60 in 8.23 seconds, while the VW comes in at 9.57 seconds. 1/4 mile in the VW is 17sec vs. 16.40 in the Mazda. Remember, for the price of the VW VE edition, one could easily get a Mazda 3s for even better performance.
 
The Mazda also has 16" alloy wheels compared to 15" wheels on the VW with plastic wheel covers. Both vehicles have similar safety features (although the VW offers optional rear torso airbags and stability control). The 3i gets better mpg 28/35 vs the VW's 22/30 for both city and highway. The 3i offers more front and rear legroom, and more front headroom. The Mazda, overall, has more passenger volume than the Jetta VE. Warranties are nearly identical, but the Mazda 3 has a better reliability rating per JD Powers and Consumer Reports. The Mazda is built in Japan, the VW, contrary to popular belief that this is a German built sedan, is built in Mexico.
 
Don't know about the rest of you, but I would pick the loaded, faster, roomier Mazda 3i Touring anyday vs a VW Jetta VE, and still keep over $500 in my pocket...

#359 of 1205 All Good Cars by sandman46

Jun 25, 2006 (1:01 pm)

Just depends on what a person values most in the compact and mid size car range. Love 'em all and have tested all to. We just picked the Mazda 3s & Civic LX for our family. We're quite satisfied with both and hopefully won't be in the market again for another 3 or 4 years. Mr. & Mrs. Sandman are happy and have 2 great cars for under $35k.
Ain't life grand!!!!!
 
The Sandman Family

#360 of 1205 Re: All Good Cars [sandman46] by dc_driver

Jun 25, 2006 (1:17 pm)

Replying to: sandman46 (Jun 25, 2006 1:01 pm)
I think you have the two top cars in the small car (if you consider them small) class. I really debated over the Mazda 3 and Civic, but Honda dealers in my area do not have any manuals in stock (LX or EX) and just did not want to deal like Mazda did.
 
Having just purchased a Honda EX-L at the end of April, I was shocked when the best price that same dealer offered was MSRP with their "appearance package" thrown in. I called about six local Honda dealers and only two offered below MSRP (the best being $400). Several dealers never even called me back after they stated they needed to do some research to find the car I wanted (manual) even after I told them that I was ready to put money down that day..
 
Going back to your situation, if we needed two cars in this class I would definitely get a Honda Civic just so that I had something different to drive
 
I was also very impressed with the Hyundai Sonata I drove a month or so back. What a great deal. I just wanted something a little more sporty and fun to drive since our other vehicle is a minivan and I had enough money from my trade-in to pay cash for the loaded Mazda 3i Touring (w/ sunroof/6 disc changer, rear lip spoiler, side airbags, etc)..
 
Zoom, zoom..

#361 of 1205 Re: Let's compare [dc_driver] by germancarfan1

Jun 25, 2006 (1:20 pm)

Replying to: dc_driver (Jun 25, 2006 12:32 pm)
The Mazda 3 is a great car, let me say first. But there's some serious problems with your post:
 
"Now lets compare the vehicles. Although the VW has the same horsepower and more torque (150hp each, VW has 170lbs/ft torque to the 3's 135lb ft), the VW also weighs over 500lbs more. On the track, the 3i clocks 0-60 in 8.23 seconds, while the VW comes in at 9.57 seconds. 1/4 mile in the VW is 17sec vs. 16.40 in the Mazda"
 
Wrong. The Jetta is faster than even the Mazda 3s to 60 MPH.
 
Mazda 3s AUTO (160 HP 2.3 liter) 0-60: 9.5s; 1/4mile: 16.70
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=106881/pageNumber=14
 
VW Jetta AUTO: 0-60: 9.42s; 1/4mile: 17.17s
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=105254/pageNumber=4
 
Unfortunately, Edmunds did not test the 5-speed Jetta 2.5, but forum participants indicate that it should run 0-60 in mid 8 second range.
 
Given the difference in standard equipment between the Mazda 3i and Jetta VE, it's a fairer comparsion with the Mazda 3s, which will run you $18K compraitively equipped.
 
Again, the Mazda 3 is a great auto. Will certainly consider it when I look to get a new auto soon.

#362 of 1205 Re: Let's compare [germancarfan1] by dc_driver

Jun 25, 2006 (1:35 pm)

Replying to: germancarfan1 (Jun 25, 2006 1:20 pm)
Hmm. Edmunds seems to contradict themselves on performance:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=108601/pageId=677- - - 00
 
That article states the 0-60 times for the 3s automatic at 8.3 seconds and quarter mile at 16.4. This is inline with other sites I have seen (Motortrend, MSN, etc).
 
The manual 3s gets clocked in the high 7's.. Not sure about the manual Jetta VE. Will try and pull some numbers but mid 8's sounds right. As I stated the 31 Touring clocks 8.23 with a manual..
 
My point in comparing the loaded 3iTouring to the Jetta VE was to show that a loaded 3i Touring could be had for less than the Jetta VE and would have more features...
 
EDIT: I see now. The comparison test you linked to was with the 2005 Mazda3s which had a 4 speed automatic tranny. The 06 3s has a five speed automatic which has manual shift mode.. So, the 06 Mazda 3s w/automatic should easily best the Jetta VE w/automatic.

#363 of 1205 Re: Let's compare [dc_driver] by germancarfan1

Jun 25, 2006 (1:44 pm)

Replying to: dc_driver (Jun 25, 2006 1:35 pm)
"That article states the 0-60 times for the 3s automatic at 8.3 seconds and quarter mile at 16.4"
 
Actualy, your quoted article says 8.6 seconds to 60 MPH.

#364 of 1205 Re: Let's compare [germancarfan1] by dc_driver

Jun 25, 2006 (1:51 pm)

Replying to: germancarfan1 (Jun 25, 2006 1:44 pm)
"That article states the 0-60 times for the 3s automatic at 8.3 seconds and quarter mile at 16.4"
  
"Actually, your quoted article says 8.6 seconds to 60 MPH."
 
I stand corrected. At any rate the 06 Mazda 3s will handily beat the Jetta 2.5 at the track.
 
Now the GLI would be another story... Although the new Mazda3speed should beat it pretty easy for probably a lot less money....

#365 of 1205 Re: Let's compare [dc_driver] by backy

Jun 25, 2006 (1:55 pm)

Replying to: dc_driver (Jun 25, 2006 12:32 pm)
I would take the Mazda3i Touring also. It's my top choice in this class right now. But I'll have to see if that changes once the all-new Elantra, Sentra, and (next spring) Corolla are available. I'd be surprised if any of those cars match the Mazda3 in handling, but that's not #1 on my priority list.

Messages Page 37 of 121

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