Last post on Nov 12, 2013 at 7:31 PM
You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
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Mazda MAZDA5, Van
#1099 of 1273 Re: Dealer's Reply on OTD (Out-The-Door) Price [bgrass2]
Sep 02, 2009 (6:01 pm)
If I read your story right, the dealer is offering you to buy the car for the 17949 + tax, license and fees. 6% tax on that brings it up to only 19025.94 though. So I don't know if it's really $573 for license and fees or if there is some other trickiness going on. I would clarify exactly where that $573 is going.
Cash 4 Clunkers has cleared out the sitting inventory of Mazda5's, as evidenced by the sales numbers Mazda posted yesterday for August: http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS203557+01-Sep-2009+PRN20090901. I tried to buy a couple Sport AT models sitting on Seattle area dealer lots over this past weekend, and was being offered something like 18,900 + tax, license, and fees. By comparison people on this board were buying the very same car for 17000+TLF in July.
So you have to decide if that price works for you (and of course get to the bottom of the $573). The guy is still making plenty of money; these cars have a $1750 factory-to-dealer incentive ("dealer engagement cash") and holdback and all sorts of other kickers.
#1100 of 1273 Re: Dealer's Reply on OTD (Out-The-Door) Price [vikg]
Sep 02, 2009 (6:04 pm)
Following up on my own post: I guess if the dealer were offering you something like $19200 out the door ($175 for title and "doc" fees) and you really wanted this car right now, I would probably take it.
I have decided to retreat from buying a car because I think these guys are in for continued pain come November when the 2010s start showing up en masse, and everybody who wanted a car just got done getting one via c4c. I hope to name my price then, as so many on this board did earlier this summer.
#1101 of 1273 Re: Dealer's Reply on OTD (Out-The-Door) Price [vikg]
Sep 02, 2009 (10:51 pm)
Thanks for your replies.
There is definitely something funny with the dealer figures - new math, I guess:). Especially when you try to back into them when it's known fact that the Invoice Price without the $750 Destination Charge Fee is $17899. And, $750 is greater than $573. I know that the dealer is going to ensure I pay the $750 Destination Charge Fee.
The dealer is suppose to call me tomorrow...so, I'll see if honors his quoted $19,598.17 OTD price that includes TTL. My new math indicates that the price of the vehicle with Title and Registration Fees included is $18,488.84 ($282 below Edmunds' TMV of $18,771 and $160 under invoice). The tax is $1,109.33. (I know that the $34 Title and Registration Fees would not be included in the taxable amount, but the dealer's figures really confuse me).
I have a feeling I won't be making a deal tomorrow or later today. It's 1.43 AM now.
Again, thanks for your replies.
And, thanks for the wishes of luck...I think I'm going to need them.
Sep 24, 2009 (7:36 pm)
Picked it up tonight.
Stormy blue color, base Touring model, no options other than I came home with the floor mats. Not sure if that's standard or if the dealer threw them in as a bonus.
MSRP of $21,670. Paid $19,276 (including the $1,750 dealer incentive). With TTL = $20,572.
I realize that probably gave the dealer about a few hundred dollars of profit over invoice (in fact the actual invoice was at $20,526 including the regional ad fees that Mazda charges the dealer), but I was ok with the deal. This was literally the only Touring left within 100 miles and another dealer I talked to wanted sticker if they had to get one by trading with another dealer. That other dealer also was about $1,000 low on my trade and very difficult to deal with.
This was an excellent dealership. The sales consultant was a little "salesy", but a good guy. They were straightforward on pricing, explaining incentives & when to expect the 2010s and I felt like they were very honest. We did almost all of the negotiating via phone and email, which included them providing a very fair offer for a trade-in that I had.
I don't mind a dealer making a reasonable profit, so long as I am not getting ripped off.
Definitely would recommend Fred Vincent Mazda in the Cleveland, OH area. Good people.
#1103 of 1273 Re: Bought a 2009 Touring [newcarbuyer18]
Sep 25, 2009 (7:46 am)
Hey wait a minute!
Congrats on your new Mazda (how do you like it so far?)
& when to expect the 2010s
So when did he say we could expect the 2010s?
#1104 of 1273 Re: Bought a 2009 Touring [vicenac]
Sep 25, 2009 (8:46 am)
So far so good. Looks like it will be a nice purchase. The only thing I might have done differently is get a GT model. Not a big fan of Mazda's cloth seats, but the car seems well built. $$$ dictated that I buy a Touring though.
He expected 2010s to show up around December, but no specific date. Another dealer told me "in several weeks", so it sounds like they'll arrive in November/December.
#1105 of 1273 Re: Bought a 2009 Touring [newcarbuyer18]
Sep 25, 2009 (9:48 am)
That's sooo sad for me. There are no cars left around here.... I'll just have to pospone buying a mazda 5 one more time
What else should I get? Don't say Rondo, cause there aren't any of those either.
#1106 of 1273 How about this quote: $17450 for M5-sports AT
Sep 30, 2009 (7:03 am)
I got a response from the dealership: $17450 for M5-sports (automatic). This includes the $1750 dealership incentive/rebate. TTL not included. Is it a good price?
#1107 of 1273 An Update - I Purchased the 2009 Mazda5, Sport Trim with AT
Sep 30, 2009 (9:17 am)
I purchased the 2009 Mazda5, Sport Trim with automatic transmission (AT), and no options from Neil Huffman VW, Inc. Mazda-Subaru in Louisville, KY on 9-11-09 that had a MSRP of 19,855.00. My out-the-door price (including KY Sales Tax, License and Fees) was $19,598.17.
The MSRP breakdown:
19,105.00 - Total Vehicle and Options
750.00 - Delivery, Processing and Handling Fee
The breakdown of my out-the-door price of 19,598.17, per the sales contract:
17,949.00 - Sales Price (net of all dealer discounts)
1,072.17 - KY Sales Tax (6% on 90% of MSRP)
56.00 - License Fee (Note: Actual Registration and Title Fees are $27.00)
22.00 - Transfer (Title Lien Statement)
499.00 - Customer Services
19,598.17 - Total
The following is my analysis of this deal:
The Sales Price of 17,949.00 for this particular model (Sport Trim with AT) of the Mazda5 is $700.00 under the dealer's invoice price. This is based on Edmunds.com True Market Value (TMV) Report for this vehicle, as of 9-6-09:
Invoice Price (What the Dealer Paid)
17,899.00 - Base Model Vehicle
0.00 - Regional Adjustment
0.00 - Selected Options (No optional Equipment selected)
0.00 - Color Adjustment (Galaxy Gray Mica)
750.00 - Destination Charge
18,649.00 - Total (Excluding tax and licensing)
So, $18,649.00 minus $17,949.00 equals $700.00 under dealer's invoice.
However, I later obtained a copy of the actual Dealer's Invoice that reflects a Louisville Assessment Fee of $300.00 added to the $18,649.00 standard Invoice Price; therefore, I obtained the vehicle for $1,000.00 under dealer's invoice of $18,949.00. (Please note that on the actual Dealer's Invoice it clearly states that $18,949.00 is the total before applicable discounts. I speculate that these discounts are dealer's holdback - 2% of MSRP or $397.10, and various incentives).
The $1,072.17 KY Sales Tax is based on one (6% on 90% of the MSRP) of the two computational methods used in the State of KY for determining the Sales Tax on a new car purchase. The other method uses the actual purchase price of the vehicle, and if it's lower than MSRP, you pay less KY Sales Tax.
The padded $56.00 License fee is overstated by the dealer. Per the the DMV; in the Monroe County Court House, it's $18.00 (Registration) and $9.00 (Title), respectively. So, the dealer overcharged amount (profit) is $39.00.
The excessive $499.00 "standard" Customer Services Fee that this dealership charges is essentially all profit for the dealership. A more realistic fee should be under $150.00 for their Customer Services Fee (AKA as the documentation fee, and the dealer's preparation fee that involves doing the 30-45 minutes of paperwork and washing/cleaning of the exterior/interior of the vehicle, prior to the car delivery to the customer).
So, the dealer gave me $1,000.00 under dealer's invoice on the car price, but then took back $538.00 in fees (either padded or excessive).
As a result, my deal was $462.00 under Dealer's Invoice overall.
Per Edmunds.com TMV Price Report, as of 9-6-09, what others are paying for this vehicle is $18,771.00 (Excluding tax and licensing) which is $122.00 over invoice.
However; as others have pointed out, Edmunds.com TMV Report is somewhat inflated as a result of the Cash 4 Clunkers (CARS Program) due to lack of motivation on the part of customers to haggle with dealers on car deals; since, the buyer was already getting $3500.00 to $4500.00 off the deal from the government.
Overall, I believe I received a decent deal on my new 2009 Mazda5 car purchase after everything is said and done.
The buying experience at the dealership was terrible. Even though I had a scheduled date and time to pick-up the vehicle at the dealership; none of the paperwork had been accomplished or the car cleaned, prior to my arrival. The dealership was even having trouble finding the 2nd key for the vehicle. I have a "Due Bill" from the dealership for providing me the 2nd key once found. I hope I get the key. I've read that the key costs over $150.00 after factoring in the cost to program the key.
The outdated salesman's antics (well-known silly games) were in full play even though I had a pre-negotiated out-the-door price, prior to stepping one foot on the dealership lot; e.g., having you sign a credit application so they can do a credit check on you based on a lie that the federal government requires it after 9-11, trying to have you sign all the paperwork before your final inspection of the vehicle, trying to sell you the dealership's extended warranty plan to make more dealer's profit, the sales consultant giving you his word they will fix things you noticed about the vehicle later on (and, in my case, missing 2nd key) - heads up, get it in writing on a "Due Bill," and adding $200.00 to the sales contract (their computer mysteriously miscalculating the sales tax) to see if they can catch you sleeping when signing the sales contract, etc.
Update: The 2nd factory issued transmitter and key could not be found at the dealership. Supposedly, they will order a replacement key and transmitter for the vehicle, and I will return with the vehicle to the dealership to have this replacement key programmed.
Latest Update: After threatening the Sales Manager of elevating the missing 2nd key to the General Manager or Owner of the Dealership, they made a 2nd key (and programmed it) for my vehicle on 9-28-09. In addition, they also re-painted the rear bumper that had a very noticeable scratch below the hatchback while I was there to obtain the newly made and programmed 2nd key. (This scratch, BTW, was also documented on a "Due Bill," per my request). I believe the 4 hours at the dealership waiting for these corrective actions to be taken were will spent - actually 9 hours of my time spent, if you take into consideration the 5 hours round trip travel time to the dealership. I guess you could argue that these corrective actions, I requested, should never of been necessary if the dealership didn't lose the the 2nd key, in the first place, and the noticeable scratch on the bumper was corrected, prior, to trying to sell the vehicle to me (AS IS).
My final words on the buying experience, please complete Mazda's Customer Survey to let them know how their franchised dealers are welcoming you to the "Mazda Family" of Mazda Car Owners. I hate being sarcastic, but I don't really believe Mazda really cares how you are treated, as long as their cars are being sold. However, they should be informed.
P.S. Also; do yourself a favor and save some money as I did, and do your own financing arrangements (e.g; 4.49% pre-approval loan through my credit union). And, do not allow the dealership to do your financing (another dealer's profit area).
#1108 of 1273 Re: An Update - I Purchased the 2009 Mazda5, Sport Trim with AT [bgrass2]
Sep 30, 2009 (9:45 am)
While you were anywhere from $700 to $1000 below invoice on the price of the car itself, you have to remember that the dealer actually had $1,750 of engagement cash from Mazda he could use to discount the car if you arranged your own financing.
It sounds like he basically split that with you, so you ended up anywhere from $750 to $1,050 OVER invoice after factoring in the $1,750. Agree with you that the "customer services" fee was excessive. Here in Ohio it's pretty much a flat $250 "doc fee" everywhere.
If you like your car, don't worry too much about it. I paid what I think was an even $500 over invoice for my Touring, but was ok with the deal. I had walked from the same dealer a few weeks before and pretty much found this was as low as they would go. There will always be somebody out there that gets a better deal, so you just have to buy the car that you like at a fair price and move on.
I'd be more focused on the nonsense they pulled with the key and scratch on the vehicle - sounds like really lousy customer service there.