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Coupes & Convertibles Chevrolet Corvette Chevrolet Corvette Z06
221 messages, Last post on Oct 15, 2009 at 5:37 PM
You are in the Chevrolet Corvette Forum. Your Host is claires
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Replying to: sammyd1 (Nov 01, 2005 1:57 pm) Now, after 4 years and 43k miles, with 2.5 years on six different road racing tracks and being a leading edge baby boomer, not 60 just yet, I can't believe how much fun I'm having. The kid is out of college, the wife recently finished Grad School and she wanted me busy so she could study. Boy am I busy! Not to mention that I roll in Sunday afternoons, tired as all heck, with what must be a stupid grin on my face which gets a laugh out of the wife and she then wants to know what exotic I got to pass that day, or if my lap times continued to improve. It isn't racing, done with some restraint, it can be fairly safe, but there are risks. Mechanical failure in your own car or others can be ugly, but the Vette is pretty bullet proof and faster than most other street cars, which does make it fun. Now the question is, before I get to real maintenance, should I upgrade to a Z06? HUM .... BTW, most Z06 drivers are a lot younger than the demographic for average Vettes, WTG gbjerke! Randy |
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I'm not here to start a Porsche or BMW vs. Corvette debate, so please don't misinterpret my intentions. I am however, intelectually curious as to this forum's reactions about a very interesting discussion I had with the owner of one of the largest GM family of dealerships, who happens to be a Corvette nut. We have been business acquaintances and social friends for several years. When "Bob" heard recently that I was debating between buying another friend's Ferrari 360 and ordering a new 911 S, he called me to invite me to drive his personal Corvette Z06. We went out drove it on some quiet backroads and highway stretches, following which I bought him dinner (at my country club, no less, starrow68!). Our interesting discussion concluded with the following: (1) The Corvette's greatest loyalty and appeal among affluent, educated professionsals is in the 55-65+ age demographic. That is the age demographic that grew up when GM was in its glory days. They remeber - and perhaps owned - GTO's, 442's, Buick SS's, etc. He indicated they often view getting a new Corvette as going back to a high school or college homecoming. (2) The Corvette's appeal amoung younger affluent professionals, age 25-44, is far lower. They grew up in GM's darker days, with the Japanese beating them to death on quality. So they were more likely to grow up driving an Accord than a Malibu. (3) The socioeconomic shift in the US has resulted in, on the one hand, a much deeper "affluent, educated, professional" segment of the population than existed 20, 30 and 40 years ago. There really is a lot more wealth in the US today. However, at the same time, this shift has resulted in diminished incomes for blue and grey collar workers, and fewer of them can afford a $35,000 car, let alone a $50-$60,000+ car. (4) Bob made reference to a recent privately comissioned study by JD Powers. GM's "appeal rating" among households making less than $50k per year was a reasonable 45%. For households between $50k and $100k, it dropped to 20%. For households from $100k to $200k (the prime market for $50k+/-cars), it was 11%. For households over $200k, it was 6%. Needless to say, the Japanese and German brands fared far better among the affluent. Factoring in college and post graduate education levels resulted in an even greater decline by GM. So, the question is, who are going to be the Corvette buyers in 5-10-15 years when those affluent baby boomers that remember the glory years of GM start to trade thier two seaters for walkers, or worse? Bob has made an extraordinarily good living as a GM (and other brand) franchisee over the past 30+ years. He sold the underlying real estate for several of his dealerships to a REIT a couple of years ago and pocketed over $100 million. So his kids, grandkids and great grandkids are taken care of. But he did express much disappointment for GM's fall from grace. And in an ironic twist, he mentioned that all of his four kids have post graduate degrees, and none of them or their spouses drive GM's, save for a single 1999 Suburban. I almost felt sad enough to offer to buy the damn Z06, even though it's far more muscle and far less finesse than I am looking for. But then I remembered how he has cleaned my clock at golf for the past several years and I didn't feel so sad. 
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And I have to wonder as well. I actually grew up a Ford guy and consider the Corvette to be the 'Dark Side'. Then again, with the Corsa exhaust on the wife's I consider it a public duty to get the kids in the neighborhood to smile when we go by so that they are exposed to the Dark Side, given the M3 next door and all the German marques around the hood. I'm sorry, 6 cyl's sound like mad hornets to me compared to the growl of a V8. And, Ford still does it better than the small block. For me the Vette was not a dream or even a want, it just fit at the point where I had some disposable income and led me to things I'm not sure I would have found any other way. I always did want to drive race cars.  I'm thinking that GM has the solution in their hands. If they can make things like the newest Z06 and sell them to people who don't want to pay a lot for image, whatever they may think that is, then GM might just survive. They still sell a lot of cars even if it's not to the sweet spot of the economic demographics. Enjoy the finesse, but don't blame me when you decide to try out tracking and that Vette goes by with a bellow and leaves some sand in your air intake.  Of course you won't have to worry about that if you spend about $130k.
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Replying to: starrow68 (Nov 02, 2005 10:51 am) And I think I'm better than average. FWIW, the test drivers for Automobile, Road and Track, Car and Driver and Motor Trend all rated the new 911S above the (standard) Corvette in track performance and achieved faster lap times with it. So that "finesse" of having the steering, suspension, engine and gearing, etc. work in harmony means something in the hands of a professional at the track as well. It will be interesting to see how the 997 Turbo stacks up against the Z06. It is a very powerful car with a much better suspension than the base Corvette, I'll admit that much form my limited exposure the other day. However, I'd still contend that a professional behind a base Corvette or 911 could beat 97%+ of amateurs behind a Z06, Ferrari 430 or Porsche 911 Turbo. You can't buy that level of training or expereince at any showroom, even with $130k in your wallet. Your point does bring up another demographic question. I wonder what percentages of Corvette buyers are regular or occassional "trackers", compared to other sports cars? A lot of the "gear head" kids in our neighborhood that I grew up with in the late 50's and 60's were tinkering with and modifying their GM's (and Fords and Chryslers) and testing their 1/4 mile times at least once a month. How did you get involved and is it an extension of your childhood or a new semi-retirment pasttime?
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Replying to: habitat1 (Nov 02, 2005 12:40 pm) I remember reading 2 of those comparisons when the cars had just came out, and while they picked the 911 due to "feel", the Vette pulled the better lap times numbers in both instances...
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Replying to: sensai (Nov 02, 2005 2:01 pm) Statistically, these two cars are practically a dead heat on paper. I happen to have the Motor Trend January 2005 comparison. The 911 wins on 0-60 (4.2 vs. 4.4), braking (106' & 299' vs. 113 & 321 from 60 & 100 mph respectively), slalom (70.1 vs. 68.9), skidpad (.97 vs. .96) and "figure 8" (24.8 vs. 25.2). But the Corvette's 60-100 mph advantage (5.7 vs. 6.5) make up enough on the longer straights to give the Corvette a slightly better time (99.5 sec. vs. 100.1). I prefer the 911 advantages as they pertain to my everyday driving, but I respect that someone else might take the track winner, no matter what. In any event, let's agree that these are both very good perfoming cars. My interest in the demographic differences as discussed with a long time GM dealer was the impetus for my previous post. |
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| Read the Car and Driver Z06 vs. Viper shootout. Certainly seems like an impressive car, but I don't remember the last time a car was called dangerous in a major magazine. Sounds like the suspension and tires need to be sorted out. Sounds like more time was put into the powertrain than the suspension work. | |
| Adding to the foregoing discussion, we old farts don't need a seven seat family hauler or have college tuition payments because all the kids are well-degreed and well-settled. Our ex-wives left us with something, with a little luck our 401K, IRA, stock market bets and T-bills have served us well and we can go down to the Chevy store and write a check for a new Corvette. Tha only pains are the income tax and sales tax hits, but gov't needs that to build roads for the convenience of my toy rides. | |
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Replying to: habitat1 (Nov 02, 2005 12:40 pm) As to what % of Vette's track, just like all others except Miata and S2000, damn few, but once in awhile you get an all Corvette event like I attended at Spring Mt. Motorsports Park and a couple this year at Reno-Fernley Raceway. About 70+ at SMMP and just over 30 cars at R-F for two events this year. Not bad, when you consider that 4-6 is average at a 90 person event. Sears Point in a week or so on a M/T and then the following weekend at Thunderhill. Can I get my street tires down to 1.59.99 at SP, time will tell. Randy BTW, I'm ignoring the Evo's, & WRX's both fast but I've seen too many wreck, and the 350Z and Mustang which are all usually driven by a much younger crowd. Rootboy66, it is nice to have the kid out of college and in our case the wife has her own Vette, so I get two to drive every once in awhile.
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