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#137 of 227 URGENT: Huge problem with my new C6 Z06!!!
Feb 02, 2006 (7:25 pm)
Guys, you want to hear about quality, read this! I purchased a brand new yellow 2006 Z06 on the last of October, after waiting patiently for a few months. Note that I owned a '01 Z06 which I kept for 2 years and recently returned a '03 911 Turbo off of a lease and purchased the new Z06, thus to amazement of some of my friends went back to a Corvette after having a Porsche.
About 2 months ago after not using the Z06 for about 10 days, my Z06 woudln't start. I called roadside & received a boost. A similar situation happened 2 weeks ago, but this time after 4 or 5 days of not being used... Obviously a problem, so I made an appointment with my local dealer to check into the problem. This was this past Friday 1/27/06. Otherwise the car seemed to operate normally.
The dealership checked the battery and told me it was fine, but when they were about to return the car to have me go on my way, the car didn't start! They obviously kept the car and later in the afternoon informed me that it was a defective starter... It happens, right, no big deal. They would overnight the part and fix it on Monday 1/30/06... No problem...
Monday comes and I have a very unpleasant conversation with the dealership (who by the way are very professional) and I'm informed that when they car was lifted to install the starter... they discover a CRACKED lower ENGINE BLOCK!!!! They immediately tell me that they will swap in a new engine! The car is 3 months old with 1,300 miles on it, so you see the problem! I'm demaning a new car, NOT a repair!
Mind you, I have a number of friends who own dealership and know numerous mechanics! I speak with all of them that same day on Monday. ALL state the same. The only way this could have happened is that the engine was overtorqued on the installation, thus cracking the engine block! This car was delivered to me defective and quality control (what an oxymoron) at Chevrolet didn't catch the problem! Fine, things happen... but Chevy, you made the mistake, rectify it and give me a new car!!!
I call Chevrolet customer support, and get a very polite, non-comittal run-around. When I ask the lady who is a manager to let me speak with someone above her, she states that she will not as per her "guidelines." Coincidentally, that dealership where my car was being fixed had a visit from a Chevy field rep. and this issue was immediately brought to his attention. He obviously okays the engine swap under warranty, but when informed that the customer wants the car replaced, refuses it.
I immediately file a Better Business Beureau complaint, and receive a phone call from a GM's customer relations manager on Tuesday morning, who is apparently above the customer support manager with whom I spoke earlier... He is told all the facts and promises to get back to me on Tuesday 2/06/06.
I want the car replaced & my issues with the repairs are the following:
a.) Obviously the Z06 is a very high performance automobile, the dealer admits to me they have never did this job on this car, I'm afraid the reliability & performance of my car will be affected in either the short term or the long term. Nothing against the dealership, but they have specialists at the factory hand building & installing these engines, and now this job will not be done in the factory? P.S., I would feel the same had they told me that car would go back to the factory for the repair job as my confidence & security in this car is totally gone.
b.) A simple carfax will reveal that this car has a new engine, thus substantially affecting the value of the automobile. Again, Chevy delivered a defective car, they need to do right by their customer and replace it.
c.) We all know that owning a Corvette is an emotional decision, and surely the way I feel about this car has been substantially affected in a negative way. I still want to have a Z06, but this car is obviously not the one I will keep.
Finally, I feel betrayed by Chevy's immediate reaction to my situation. The company (GM)is having a lot of problems as we all know. I feel that we, as Corvette owners, are the backbone customers and need to be heard and I think Chevy/GM is very dangerously undermining the core customer base with these type of actions. I see myself and others like myself as GM's #1 customers. Not only do I own their HALO car which states to the world, take a look and notice, the Z06 is what GM is all about, but I'm also a repeat customer having previously owned another Z06! I still have hope that Chevy/GM will do the right thing and replace the car without any further action by me... I'm still waiting... But I'm prepared to take all steps necessary, including legal ones... P.S. I am an attorney.
All contributions & opinions would be highly appreciated. Anyone else ever have similar issues? Any ideas in dealing with this situation? Needless to say, I'm extremely distressed by this situation!
Thanks in advance for comments and ideas...
#138 of 227 Re: URGENT: Huge problem with my new C6 Z06!!! [alenatasevich1]
Feb 03, 2006 (5:46 am)
For what it's worth, when I was shopping for a 911 last summer, I visited a dealership that had a 911S Cab with 1,500 miles for roughly $10k under list. It looked brand new. It had been taken back by the dealership/Porsche when the clutch failed, due to a one-off defect. The purchaser was allowed to drive the repaired car for 30 days until Porsche could deliver him a new, comparably equiped car.
This particlular dealership was selling all new 911 Cabs at 100% MSRP. Therefore, Porsche and/or the delership were willing to take a $10k hit to give the original owner a brand new car. And that was only because of a clutch replacement, not something as serious as a cracked engine.
The next week, I happened to meet the "lucky" 911 owner at the dealership and asked him if he had to threaten legal action to get a new car. He said just the opposite - he never even asked for a new car. They offered it without being asked. He was further stunned when they didn't charge him for an extra couple of options that were on the new one. It may have cost Porsche $10k+, but that event helped get my business two months later.
Fortunately, I have not had any issues with my 911. But shortly after I bought a Honda S2000 in November 2001, one of the convertible roof latches broke. I got it replaced two days later at the dealership and a week or two later, it broke again. By then it had snowed. The dealership sent a service technician 15 miles to my house and replaced the latch there. The next day, I got a call from the regional factory representative asking if I was satisfied and if they could do anything else. I jokingly said a car cover would be nice. He laughed. A week later, one arrived in the mail.
You have bought one of the few cars that GM could truly be proud of. Yet it came with a very serious defect. If they don't give you a new one, I would be upset as hell.
Nobody is perfect - not GM, not Porsche, not Honda. But how you handle a problem says everything about your integrity as a company.
#139 of 227 Re: URGENT: Huge problem with my new C6 Z06!!! [habitat1]
Feb 06, 2006 (8:32 am)
Habitat1, thank you for your response.
I couldn't agree with you more. Integrity of the company is the bottom line. I agree that problems arise and no company is perfect, but it comes down in doing the right thing vs. the wrong thing. It may seem like an additional expense for GM to do the "right" thing, but Porsche has managed to be one of the most profitable car manufacturers while doing the right thing, while GM is having huge financial difficulties and needs our tax dollars to be bailed out by the government. The gentleman with the Porsche had a problems with the clutch, and the dealer OFFERED to replace the car and let him drive the car he had until the replacement arrived. While my engine is cracked due to poor worksmanship & quality control, and I have to FIGHT for the same. Folks, its all about integrity! Maybe doing the right thing gets you more business in the long run thus leading to long term profitability.
All additional comments & opinions would be greatly appreciated.
#140 of 227 Re: URGENT: Huge problem with my new C6 Z06!!! [alenatasevich1]
Feb 06, 2006 (9:39 pm)
help me get this straight,
They will put in a new engine, and give you a car to drive in the mean time while they fix yours.
or are they only willing to put in a brand new engine?
Thanks for clarifying
#141 of 227 Re: URGENT: Huge problem with my new C6 Z06!!! [russla]
Feb 07, 2006 (9:33 am)
As clarification, they are willing to put in a new engine. I do have an ENVOY which they provided as a loaner.
Take a look at the C6 Corvette forum where another member of this forum responded... In this case a BMW M3 was being sold by a BMW dealership at a huge discount where the engine had to be replaced with the car having appr. 5K miles and in which instance BMW also replaced the M3!
Above again addresses one of the main issues that I do have! I will basically have a new car with the engine having been swapped thus substantially affecting the value of my car! Where is the fairness in this? Remember, the car left the factory with the cracked engine block and Chevy quality control has proved to be anything but! Their screw up! Fine, it happens, do the right thing! They refuse. Am I missing something?
Yesterday I spoke with a customer relations manager from GM who told me that they would not be giving me a new car. I'm not giving up, so stay tuned.
So far, based on feedback of numerous people on these boards, Porsche, BMW and Honda have done the right thing in similar or LESS serious situations, but GM, knowing that they delivered a SUBSTANTIALLY defective car, have not!!!
INTEGRITY!!! A wonder why GM is having the problems that it is! Must love their new slogan - "AMERICAN REVOLUTION"! What a joke! I try to buy and support American products, but shouldn't this relationship be mutual?! I guess not in the eyes of GM!
#142 of 227 Re: URGENT: Huge problem with my new C6 Z06!!! [alenatasevich1]
Feb 07, 2006 (11:55 am)
Thanks for clarifying,
I'm sorry, you feel that a new engine in a new car will seriously affect its value, it's not like they're putting a rebuilt motor in, and if you ever sell to a collector, the car is still considered original, because it was a warranty replacement. Does having a new CPU, or a new window motor decrease the value of the car? or a new windshield? not really.
If I bought a vette, and then had to drive around in an Envoy for weeks, it certainly would diminish my view of the dealer, and the MFG, as I would like them to provide a vette for me to drive. But I realize, they are not under any obligation to cater to my emotions. As a lawyer, you should best understand that what's written in ink, is what governs the liability. and I'm sure you can find the requirements for the lemon law in your state.
Yes you have found examples were other MFG's have catered to emotions, but that doesn't make their GM's actions wrong. It's just what makes GM, GM.
They are afterall, giving you a brand new engine, it's not like they're changing the way the car handles, accellerates, looks, functions or sounds. It's still the cool car you bought, they didn't change the soul of it.
When you get it back, and if you decide to keep it, just push on the gas pedal a few times really hard, in a safe location,go around some curvy roads, and you may in fact fall back in love with it.
#143 of 227 Re: URGENT: Huge problem with my new C6 Z06!!! [russla]
Feb 07, 2006 (5:20 pm)
Its not a matter of emotions. My "feelings" about the value of the care are based on my own personal observations & comments by other board members, as well an pretty much everybody I spoke with. In every example that was provided, specifically the 911 & the M3, the cars were sold for significantly less than market value by the dealerships themselves. I have no reason to believe it would be any different with my Z06. I know if I was buying one with a replaced engine I would be looking for a significant discount. Wouldn't you? Would you pay the same for a 3 month old Z06 with 1300 miles if one was all original and the second had a replaced engine? I know I wouldn't. I spoke with a couple of friends who own used dealership and guess what? They concur! The value of my automobile is significantly affected!!!
As far as changing the way the car handles or performs, who can tell? If you shelled out close to $80K after taxes, etc. would you want to take that chance? Now you're driving your new car and really have no idea what you have any more. My confidence is this car is pretty much shut. Did I mention they also had to replace the starter? Issues are starting to add up...
The dealership informed me that they never handled an engine swap on this car. Am I to be the guinea pig? This is a very complicated car, and although I think very highly of this particular dealership, I'm not confident that the car after the engine swap will be 100% as reliable or perform to as high a level as a new Z06 should.
By the way, I fully intend to litigate and win, but that is not the point. The point is the integrity of the company I'm dealing with. So next time one of you buys a GM product just hope problems do not arise with the product, and in that case you may actually enjoy the car you bought.
Thanks for your comment and all future comments are opinions are highly appreciated!
#144 of 227 Re: URGENT: Huge problem with my new C6 Z06!!! [alenatasevich1]
Feb 08, 2006 (4:20 pm)
"The point is the integrity of the company I'm dealing with".
Really, if integrity is the point,
You signed the contract when you purchased the car, and that contract includes their warranty, and their oblication to adhere to your state's lemon laws. (which you probably got a copy of when you bought the car)and if you didn't, since you're a JD, you probably have familiarized yourself with, so you know you can't use them in this beef.
They are doing everything they agreed to, they're fixing the engine, the starter, and giving you a loaner.
Where have they failed to live up to the contract they signed? Show us where GM violated their agreement with you, I've yet to see any indication that they have violated the contract you signed.
Feb 09, 2006 (2:41 pm)
You have EVERY right to be upset and frustrated having waited on a car for months and then to have it not start ONLY to find out that the engine is bad. I find it hard to believe that, upon lifting the motor, that's when they discovered the "crack". Before hand, was the car driveable? Any different actions the car would have? It could've been very well a repair shop incident. I've had these problems to happen on 3 occassions at repair shops.
I find this hard to believe because me, the Vette man himself, have never heard of such non-sense in my life, particularly in the auto biz. It may be true that the Z06 came from the mfr. defective, but surely GM should address more than just an engine swap and a free Envoy rental. That's just putting a band-aid over a river of blood flow.
Thankfully, my '06 Z06 has been a reliable daily driver. No problems whatsoever. But since youe issue is relatively a rare event, GM sees no point in giving you a new ride, which in itself is unjustified. Someone spending 80k on a ride and to add on top of that a previous Z06 owner, it should be a no-brainer.
Justin P. Spencer, ESQ (I serve the Court also)
#146 of 227 Faulty ZO6
Feb 09, 2006 (4:55 pm)
I hope that chevy takes care of your problem and replaces the car, but i had a similar case with a 2004 BMW 330. It had a faulty auto transmission from the factory. It was replaced with a rebuilt transmission. The dealer explained that they would only replace it with a rebuilt and not a new one. I was very upset and tryed every thing but legal matters. They explained to me that my owners manual said that they had the right to replace any part with new or rebuilt at their discression. I checked it out and they were right and also my corvette manual said the same exact thing.