- #125 of 522
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Re: Challenger does look excellent [m1miata]
by m382
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Feb 02, 2006 (4:57 pm)
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Replying to: m1miata (Jan 27, 2006 8:46 pm)
...and you want all that under 21k? and you're going to want a 250HP V6 in a car weighing in at 1890 kilo / 4166.7 lbs?? That's a worse horsepower to weight ratio than a 2005 Buick LaCrosse....not a very awe inspiring car. I agree with a smaller V8...but even a large displacement V8 would do more than wonders in that car, I have the Chrysler 300C SRT-8, so for all intents and purposes its the same engine. A V6 in car weighing that much, without any aid of forced induciton would be anemic. I also don't see this car costing under $21k. I think it would be fair to compare this car to the Mustang, and seeing as how the Mustang MSRP's at $19,810 for the V6,without taxes etc, I can't imagine the Challenger starting for under 21k especially since Dodge's cost more MSRP than Ford's on average.
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- #126 of 522
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Re: Challenger does look excellent [m382]
by m1miata
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Feb 03, 2006 (7:40 pm)
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Replying to: m382 (Feb 02, 2006 4:57 pm)
Why would a sports car weigh more than 3,200# with a V6? Even 3,500 with a V8 seems a bit piggish. Maybe the car needs to go on a diet. Where did you read about it weighing in at 4,167# ? That must be more than the Charger, which is really a customized 300. And what an awkward car it is. The Challenger, with the 250 or is now 260HP V6, would be worth more than a Mustang, so I'd say $21K is very fair priced. They of course can price it as high as they like, and I am sure suckers will pay $35K or more. Sorry, but you can get a BMW or many other luxury cars for that much. Most of the big three manufacturer cars can be had in about three years for near half off, so used rules anyway.
Loren
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- #127 of 522
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Re: Challenger does look excellent [m1miata]
by wombator
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Feb 04, 2006 (6:36 pm)
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Replying to: m1miata (Feb 03, 2006 7:40 pm)
I agree, that probably is a fair price for the 250hp V-6, which really isn't all that slouchy when one thinks about it. Despite how some might feel about the performance numbers turned in by that engine in the current Chrysler/Dodge offerings, objectively, they are still so much better than what was available in those respective niches say, fifteen years ago... or even ten. Any 0-60mph time of under 10-12 seconds is plenty fast for most folks and was considered downright zippy not too long ago.
That being said, I am pretty stoked about this car's design, especially that totally gorgeous front end -- I hope that stays as-is. What would make it really rock would be a truly wide choice of engines and transmissions, including a high-efficiency, forced induction four-cylinder with a slick stick-shift and stripped-down interior.
I would also hope that DC would bring the turbo-diesel available in European 300Cs to the Challenger... That would be my choice, funds permitting: plenty of performance AND exemplary fuel economy.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for every kind of high-output special-edition V-8 being made. I simply would never own one (though it's nice to know they're there).
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- #128 of 522
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Re: Challenger does look excellent [m1miata]
by m382
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Feb 07, 2006 (7:10 pm)
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Replying to: m1miata (Feb 03, 2006 7:40 pm)
actually no...the Charger SRT 8 in fact does weigh 4160(these figures are taken right from their respected press coverage releases)....a mere 7lbs off of the projected weight of the Challenger. I also couldn't disagree with you more when you say that the 300C is an "awkward car". I personally own an 300C SRT 8 and that comment couldn't be more untrue. Own one or at least try driving one before making the comment. The car competes and outperforms basically every car in its performance "league", while still costing thousands less then all of them. The point of choosing one car over another isn't always about cost, it's about prefrence. I'm sure someone whose in the market to buy a Challenger isn't really having an inner debate between the "all american challenger" and a "I just got out of an office meeting" BMW 3 series...that being said, just because two cars are comparible in price doesn't mean they are shopped in the same class. I can get an Neon SRT4 for less than I can get a Nissan Altima....would you compare them? No, they are completely different cars, so although some may have the money at 35k or so to buy a BMW or a Mercedez Benz, but how many people who realistically want to own a Challenger are also in the market for a fine European automobile?
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- #129 of 522
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I like the Challenger, but..........
by brysok6
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Feb 09, 2006 (8:56 am)
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It's stuck in 1970 ! There's no doubt the Challenger is a great idea, but how about a little less "retro" in the styling department. The Chevrolet Camaro is a much nicer looking concept, undeniably a Chevy, but it looks modern from every angle while paying homage to the past. So, sorry Mopar fans, Chevy one-up'd Dodge and the Challenger with the Camaro concept. But what maybe the best news of all ?, is hopefully we'll see these two American Icons side-by-side on the street in late '08. Hurry up GM & DCX, the Mustang is waiting.....
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- #130 of 522
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Re: I like the Challenger[brysok6]
by m382
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Feb 09, 2006 (9:42 am)
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Replying to: brysok6 (Feb 09, 2006 8:56 am)
I personally don't agree with you. I'm a fan of the Camaro's of old as well as the new concept, same with the Challenger. There's no point in making your comment "Chevy one-up'd Dodge and the Challenger with the Camaro concept"....because all that is is your opinion. There's no way to formulate or test that theory so the only weight it holds is with people that agree with you,...not the people that don't. You're entitled to you're opinion, and I like the Camaro, but I happen to feel that the Challenger is a far better looking concept...for those people who ever "what if'ed my car from the 70's could be made today?"....or for those who loved their Challenger in the 70's and wanted it here and now....this is the better car, because that's exactly what they want.
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- #131 of 522
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Re: Challenger does look excellent [m382]
by m1miata
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Feb 09, 2006 (1:41 pm)
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Replying to: m382 (Feb 07, 2006 7:10 pm)
I did not say the 300C is an awkward looking car. I said the CHARGER is an awkward looking car. As for weight, both seem like they need a diet. Even the Mustang is getting fatter. Cars should be getting lighter, not heavier.
The Challenger looks pretty good. That said, not sure what to think of replica cars. Perhaps something new would be better. No, doesn't mean the look of the old Challenger is not perfect, why must they go backwards to find something that looks interesting. In 1970 people were not looking for a 1935 model.
Something which looks as good as the old, with styling hints from the past would be cool. And it should come in under 3200#s
Loren
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- #132 of 522
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Re: I like the Challenger[brysok6] [m382]
by brysok6
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Feb 09, 2006 (3:28 pm)
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Replying to: m382 (Feb 09, 2006 9:42 am)
Sorry M382, I didn't mean for you to get your shorts all up in a knot, you must be a lawyer ! Take a pill and relax. I thought expressing one's opinion was as American as apple pie ? And in my humble opinion, Chevy's Camaro concept IS the car to build. I love Challengers, and I have always wanted one, but I don't want one in 2009 that looks like it was designed and built in 1970 ! I think DCX can do better than that. And with the Camaro concept, I think (here I go again !) Chevy has stepped to the forefront in design. This has been unfamiliar territory for GM for a long time, but this Camaro concept leaves no doubt there is still life left at GM. Anyway, I can't wait to see these two out on the street. I'll take the Camaro hands down, you can have the Mopar Gramp's.....
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- #133 of 522
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Re: I like the Challenger[brysok6] [m382] [brysok6]
by m382
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Feb 09, 2006 (3:54 pm)
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Replying to: brysok6 (Feb 09, 2006 3:28 pm)
no, I'm not a lawyer at all...I just know that opinion has no place in stating which car is better or worse. Simply state YOU like the car more, nothing more....instead of imploring as fact that Chevy did something astounding by "one-upping" Dodge...it's a matter of opinion and that all it is. Opinion holds no weight in a statistical comparison, if you want to talk numbers (hypotheticaly speaking) like 0-60, 1/4 mile, HP and whatnot thats a different story. I also think you miss the point where you argue that Dodge's downfall/mistake was that they made the Challenger looking as if it came out of the 70's...not to rain on your parade but that's what they were going for...so like it or not, the fact that you so elequently pointed that out...means they hit the nail on the head.
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- #134 of 522
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Re: I like the Challenger[brysok6] [m382] [brysok6]
by jae5
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Feb 09, 2006 (3:58 pm)
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Replying to: brysok6 (Feb 09, 2006 3:28 pm)
I think DCX can do better than that. And with the Camaro concept, I think (here I go again !) Chevy has stepped to the forefront in design
I feel a little different, really the exact opposite. I think Dodge has nailed it and the Camaro looks a over-done, like a cake from the Three Stooges, that too big and needs to be deflated look. It just looks bloated to me, with exaggerated lines, while the Charger just seems "right". It has that soul, captures what it means to so many whereas the Camaro just looks rushed, like an "Oh shoot!!! The GTO's tanking, Mustangs are selling like hotcakes, Chrysler revived the Charger and a Challenger is coming. We better get something out there quick!". Though the Camaro was supposedly being worked on before the Challenger concept, it just seems rushed. But like you, just my opinion. Hate to say it but the Challenger going to have me defect to DCX 
But am in agreement with you, I would be very happy if both hit the streets. All the same to you I'm joining Gramps. 
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