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Mazda3 Real World MPG

961 messages,  Last post on Jul 27, 2012 at 1:44 AM

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What is this discussion about? Mazda MAZDA3, Mazda MAZDASPEED MAZDA3, Fuel Efficiency (MPG)

Messages Page 65 of 97

#632 of 961 A Sad Story ... by autonomous

Sep 16, 2008 (2:58 pm)

Replying to: tkfitz (Sep 11, 2008 4:40 am)
Yes, it is a depressing story.
 
The Mazda3 and many other small cars are nowhere close to where they should be in terms of fuel economy. There are some exceptions (e.g. Honda Fit) but for the most part the fuel efficiency of cars has not improved substanitally in the last decade.
 
Since the use of an automakers numbers for fuel ratings is problematic many consumers go to independent sources like Consumer Reports. So how does CR* rate the overall (highway+city) fuel economy of the Mazda3 s grand touring hatchback? Answer: 25 mpg. Yes, you are reading the numbers in the correct order 25.
 
I drive a 2002 Mazda Protege (the predecessor of the Mazda3). What is the CR rating for my car? The exact same 25 mpg. Nearly seven years later and no significant improvement in overall fuel economy. Now, the Mazda3 has a bigger engine and weighs more, so what do we expect? What does that say about us consumers and automakers? Fuel economy is nowhere close to being a significant factor in the design of automobiles. With gas prices as high as they are there may be a change coming. But that is not self-evident as new cars (like the new Mazda6) seem to continue to gain weight and have bigger engines. Will the new Mazda3 have a larger engine and be heavier than the current model? Seems likely. Or, will Mazda change course and produce a vehicle that is spirited because it used innovative engineering and shed unnecessary weight? We can hope.
 
*Source: Consumer Reports April 2008

#633 of 961 Re: A Sad Story ... [autonomous] by aviboy97

Sep 17, 2008 (7:01 am)

Replying to: autonomous (Sep 16, 2008 2:58 pm)
Well, I am going to disagree with you. The Mazda Protege on 2002 had a 2.0L with 130hp and rated (by today's EPA estimates) 22city-28hwy. Mazda now has a 2.0L with 148hp rated at 22city-31hwy. Both with a 4 speed automatic. The 2.3L has 156hp and rated 22city-28hwy.
 
While you decided to just look at the FE, you forget to mention that the 2.0L has 18hp more and the 2.3L has 26hp more, while maintaining the same fuel economy. You cannot say they are not more efficient. Now, remember, both these MZR engines were new engines in 2003!!! The price of gas in 2003 was $1.63/gal!
 
Now, Mazda uses the new MZR 2.5L (09 Mazda6) which is rates at 21city-30hwy and has 170hp, which is on par with every other mfgr in the world.
 
The 2010 Mazda3 is due out in February, and the 2.5L will replace the 2.3L, and they are upgrading the 2.0L to be more economical.

#634 of 961 HP without MPG ... [aviboy97] by autonomous

Sep 17, 2008 (10:17 am)

Replying to: aviboy97 (Sep 17, 2008 7:01 am)
I agree with you that the engines have become larger (and in most cases the vehicles have become heavier) but I disagree that the fuel efficiency has been improved. The fact that a Mazda3 hatchback has a bigger engine but delivers the same 25 mpg that my six year old Protege5 is what I lament.
 
This is not only the responsibility of the manufacturer but also ours. As consumers we should get the message out to auto manufacturers that a bigger, heavier box with more hp but without more mpg is not an improvement.
 
The writing has been on the wall for several years. As we all know, various auto manufacturers have proposed hybrids, diesels, biofuel, electric, hydrogen-based and other solutions. Mazda has jumped on the bandwagon but frankly I have not heard a coherent message about improved fuel economy for their North American market. For example, Mazda Canada has brought the Mazda3 hatchback with the 2.0 L engine (available in Europe) which seems like a sensible interim step. But what we are really looking for is the innovative step that realizes the demand for a car that is truly fuel efficient. Think 50 mpg for the commuter vehicle as the baseline.

#635 of 961 Re: HP without MPG ... [autonomous] by aviboy97

Sep 17, 2008 (10:36 am)

Replying to: autonomous (Sep 17, 2008 10:17 am)
There is no car right now that gets an average of 50mpg. The technology is just not out yet to get that.

#636 of 961 Re: HP without MPG ... [aviboy97] by shipo

Sep 17, 2008 (1:09 pm)

Replying to: aviboy97 (Sep 17, 2008 10:36 am)
Are you referring to 50 mpg combined, or 50 mpg highway? I ask because it is apparently quite easy to attain 50 mpg (without even hypermiling) in the new 2009 Jetta TDI.
 
Best regards,
Shipo

#637 of 961 The new zoom zoom by autonomous

Sep 17, 2008 (4:25 pm)

Replying to: shipo (Sep 17, 2008 1:09 pm)
I am referring to 50 mpg combined. Outlandish? Not really. The Toyota Prius comes closest so far at 44 mpg, the Honda Civic Hybrid is at 37 and even the mid-size Toyota Camry Hybrid is at 34. The newest-Prius fighter from Honda will be interesting. So, an automaker who wants to raise the bar with their next vehicle should be aiming for 50. GM has the right idea with the Volt; the only question is can GM deliver. After all the gas price horror stories, why would manufacturers think that their newest models should offer a larger engine and not better fuel economy?
 
My point again is that auto manufacturers that keep on pumping up the HP without improving fuel economy will face the music. Has Mazda been listening?
 
Lighter, more fuel efficient, more innovative ... zoom zoom

#638 of 961 Re: The new zoom zoom [autonomous] by aviboy97

Sep 18, 2008 (12:16 pm)

Replying to: autonomous (Sep 17, 2008 4:25 pm)
Besides the Prius, nothing even comes close! The Civic Hybrid is 13mpg away from a 50mpg average. Really, unless it's a hybrid, you cannot come remotely close to 50mpg average. Not even the Jetta TDI. So you as saying Mazda is behind the ball on hybrid production.
 
Mazda has been listening, they are introducing their new start-stop idling engine technology starting with 2009 models. They already have a working plug-in hybrid that uses a lithium ion battery, however, unless the cost of the batteries come down, they will not mass produce it. (Something GM is having a problem with in their Volt.). Their new 2.5L I4 is on par with every other mfgrs mid sized 4 cyl. They are also revising the MZR 2.0L to be more powerful and fuel efficient. They also have the world's first production application of a catalyst combustion (MZR-CD) treatment process that enhances the removal of particulate matter from the exhaust gasses via a diesel particulate filter. It produces 184hp and 285 ft-lbs of torque and gets a remarkable 42mpg.
 
You keep ignoring the fact that their 4 cyl engines were designed 6 years ago. They have their new engines coming out. They already have out the 2.5L, and are introducing the new 2.2L MZR-CD in Europe, which is also a clean burning diesel, and a revised 2.0L. Outside of a gas-electric hybrid, they offer everything else, with the exception of the Tribute HEV (hybrid) which is really a Ford.

#639 of 961 Re: The new zoom zoom [aviboy97] by shipo

Sep 18, 2008 (12:24 pm)

Replying to: aviboy97 (Sep 18, 2008 12:16 pm)
Besides the Prius, nothing even comes close! The Civic Hybrid is 13mpg away from a 50mpg average. Really, unless it's a hybrid, you cannot come remotely close to 50mpg average. Not even the Jetta TDI. So you as saying Mazda is behind the ball on hybrid production.
 
I assume you're quoting EPA numbers and not real world numbers. FWIW, even the EPA has acknowledged that their new test does not reflect the real-world mileage capabilities of Diesel cars. If you go over to any of the sites that are popular with the Diesel crowd, you'll see that there are in fact many-many folks that average over 50 mpg in mixed driving.
 
Best regards,
Shipo

#640 of 961 Re: The new zoom zoom [shipo] by aviboy97

Sep 18, 2008 (1:55 pm)

Replying to: shipo (Sep 18, 2008 12:24 pm)
I have read that people can get around 50 hwy. I don't think I have seen anyone getting an average of 50mpg.
 
I really hope Mazda decides to bring over their 2.2L MZR-CD. For me personally, I would not buy a VW. I understand they have a reputation of building good diesels, however, it's the rest of the car that worries me!

#641 of 961 Re: The new zoom zoom [aviboy97] by autonomous

Sep 18, 2008 (2:21 pm)

Replying to: aviboy97 (Sep 18, 2008 1:55 pm)
I really hope Mazda decides to bring over their 2.2L MZR-CD.
I agree.
 
I would not buy a VW
Consumer Reports rates the current Rabbit superior to the Mazda3. I think consumers may want to give VW another try.
 
I stand by my earlier statement about fuel economy that "Mazda has jumped on the bandwagon but frankly I have not heard a coherent message about improved fuel economy for their North American market." It's one thing to have protoype vehicles on a test track, it's another thing to have them available as options in the consumer market. It's painful to read European auto magazines that show the wide array of models (like the Mazda2 or the Mazda diesels) that are unavailable in North America. I find it difficult to understand in the current environment how auto manufacturers can think that big boxes (like Mazda's CX9) are the future even in North America. These heavy behemoths obviously offer the potential for increased profit, but only if someone buys them.

Messages Page 65 of 97

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