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Automotive News & Views Hybrids & Diesels - Deals or Duds? 
5196 messages, Last post on Oct 16, 2006 at 6:55 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
I'd love to go with diesel. The power (torque) is so nice to have. Plus most of my driving is on hilly windy backroads. I doubt I'd get the benefit of hybrid. Mostly drive 45-60 mph with few stops. I keep my cars for a long time (or many miles). I really only want manual transmission and AWD (on a nice car). That's key to me. Right now there is no option for that. I know there is in Europe. When I was in Madrid last time I saw an AWD Diesel 5spd VW Golf. sweeeet.  I've always wondered why SUVs AREN'T diesel. It seems like such a natural fit. Look at the sales of the Liberty diesel. I don't think hybrid is worth the premium. $30k+ for a prius? No thanks. Slap a diesel in a Subaru and it's mine. I know that there are a lot of diesels in the works. More than hybrids. BMW said it's not a matter of if, but when they bring theirs to the US. ULSD is the key. July 2006 is the date for that. But I think if you do an unbiased comparison of hybrid vs. diesel, you'll find diesel most likely comes out ahead. Thay may depend on where you live, but out in the country in upstate NY where I live - it's diesel for sure. |
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Replying to: ratbert (Jun 03, 2005 6:52 am) Welcome to the Forum. I'm with you on where I like to drive. We just bought a new Passat Wagon TDI and drove it from Portland to San Diego. We did mostly back roads down the coast then across to the Sierras. The diesel torque is what makes it a pleasure to drive. None of that peaky 5000 RPMs to get in the power band. Cruising at 70 MPH only 2200 RPMs with no degradation on the long uphill climbs. They offer the AWD Passat TDI in Canada. Maybe next year or so it will be brought to the US. I would love to drive up through the Adirondacks again. So pretty in the fall.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 03, 2005 7:09 am) Funny you should mention this. I was driving my fathers 2003 Town Car and happened to notice the RPMs at 70 MPH: 2200. And that was a normal gas engine (V8). However, he only gets 27 MPG on the road...
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Replying to: stevedebi (Jun 03, 2005 9:18 am) My Suburban is the same. Except it has never broken 20 MPG. 27 MPG is decent for a car that heavy I don't think a hybrid that heavy will match it. If you need a 6 passenger luxury car that runs on regular gas it is about your only choice. |
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Replying to: ratbert (Jun 03, 2005 6:52 am) Prius provides up to 295 lb-ft torque. That's more than some diesels. > Mostly drive 45-60 mph with few stops. Prius actually does better in those conditions than highway driving. > $30k+ for a prius? First, that price is clearly not average. Most currently only pay sticker. Diesel supporters are notorious for using extremely short-term data to make hybrids look expensive and long-term data to make diesel look clean. Choose one and stick with it. Long-Term is my preference. And we all know hybrids will cost less then. JOHN
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Replying to: john1701a (Jun 04, 2005 5:50 am) Now that they are more available I will have to go and test drive the Prius II. We travel a section of Interstate 8 from the El Cajon Valley to Descanso. It is about a 3500 foot rise in 10 miles. That will be a good test. If it can maintain 75 MPH up that grade it will handle most anything you need.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 04, 2005 7:20 am) Still, it's a dead horse for me as I will only drive a manual and need AWD. I'm slowly getting used to running my '02 Outback at 3500 rpms in 3rd gear just to make it up the hills in my commute. Driving has to be enjoyable to me, otherwise it's a chore. Crank up the stereo and have fun for the 35 minutes to and from work!  It's all about the whole package, not just economy and cost. I find the hybrids out there quite ugly (prius) or just plain boring/bland (civic/escape/highlander/accord). personal preference. People think of cars differently. I like a manual transmission coupled to an engine. I don't like fancy stuff in between. It numbs the feel of the car to you. And finally - I have to be able to rip out the crappy factory stereo and put one in myself. If I can't do that, then it's a deal breaker for ANY car.
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Replying to: ratbert (Jun 05, 2005 2:42 pm) Jetta GL Auto TDI both accelerates slower and is less efficient than Prius. That mild clatter of the diesel engine is rather hard to overlook too. JOHN
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Replying to: john1701a (Jun 05, 2005 7:25 pm) Simplicity, is the key that those that love the hybrid technology overlook. As complex as all new cars are, the hybrids are much more complex. It is easier to jump into a VW TDI and get good mileage than a hybrid. Not a lot of people like to "hyper-mile" it. If my driving was mostly commuting in town with a lot of stop and go the Prius would be on the list. I think it excels in that area. Most of my in town driving is less than 3 miles each way. Nothing but an EV does good under those circumstances. If you like to get out a drive the highways and byways as I do. It is hard to beat a modern diesel car. I suspect I will sell this 2005 Passat very soon and get a Mercedes E320 CDI. I need a little more luxury and don't want to give up the superior German handling. They are not noisy. They are not as quiet as the Prius in stealth mode. They are quieter when you are pulling a long hard hill at 75 MPH.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 05, 2005 7:55 pm) Though true with "assist" hybrids that add components, it is not with "full" hybrids... since the PLANETARY-CVT design actually eliminates some. Complexity is becomes a wash as the years proceed anyway. At that point, consumers turn to consumer ratings instead of analyzing design. And guess what, Prius already rates higher in reliability that the diesel Jetta. JOHN
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