Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Automotive News & Views Hybrids & Diesels - Deals or Duds? 
5196 messages, Last post on Oct 16, 2006 at 6:55 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
|
Replying to: gagrice (Oct 15, 2006 7:28 am) Who said cause? There is not a single source. Smog contributes. Of course, this isn't the first time you've disagreed with the American Lung Association. JOHN
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: john1701a (Oct 15, 2006 7:19 am) Ironically enough, I agree with John on this. Which is why I'm very happy to see the new clean diesels starting to show up, and even happier to see GM about to deluge the market with a variety of Hybrids. I think John would probably agree, if he didn't have a transparently Toyota-Only agenda.
|
|
|
Replying to: jonnycat26 (Oct 15, 2006 8:31 am)
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: ruking1 (Oct 15, 2006 9:19 am) But where you could really slay is if you took the TDI and put a IMA/BAS type hybrid system on it. You'd avoid the complexity of HSD (and owning a Prius I fully admit HSD is a technological masterpiece and nightmare at the same time) and increase efficiency even further.
|
|
|
Replying to: john1701a (Oct 15, 2006 7:19 am) |
|
|
Replying to: jonnycat26 (Oct 15, 2006 9:53 am)  2974#'s or 474 #'s. I do often wonder what the performance and mpg would be with the TDI weighing 474#'s less. Of course the opposite comparison (how would the Honda Civic run with 474 #'s MORE would do) is very easy to do. Just put three more folks in it. (150#'s per person or 3.16 people) vs a TDI with just the driver. (Unfortunately) The effects are pretty predictable.   My take is emissions mitigation has been and should be a constant improvement sort of affair, as it has been for leaded regular to unleaded regular and current incremental improvements. So as it applies to diesel "get over it" so to speak, remove the bias and unrealistic lead times against diesel and "motor on ". There is no way unleaded regular could have passed the unrealistic time frames the anti diesel folks wish to enforce for diesel. |
|
|
Replying to: houdini1 (Oct 15, 2006 10:20 am) They absolutely hate my broken-record posts. Over and over and over and over again, I sight the emission ratings. Not changing the subject makes them absolutely crazy. The future scares them. They fear the computer industry, knowing it is doing everything in its power to improve battery technology. So whether or not the automotive industry invests in research, they'll end up with better (higher power density and lower prices) anyway. They don't have to do anything. The by-product of portable computers, cell-phones, MP3 players, bluetooth devices, digital cameras, DVD players, etc. will be something the hybrids will also take advantage of. And of course for spite, I sometimes point out how biodiesel causes increased NOx emissions. That really ticks them off, especially with all the recent attention to ethanol... which does exactly the opposite. The fact that I've been using E10 in my Prius for over 6 years irritates too. Both the diesel and the "assist" hybrid supporters have a lot to lose. So special occasions like now (ULSD availability) invites their efforts to distract from the ultimate goals of *BOTH* emission & consumption reduction. JOHN |
|
|
Replying to: john1701a (Oct 15, 2006 12:06 pm) They absolutely hate my broken-record posts. Over and over and over and over again, I sight the emission ratings. Not changing the subject makes them absolutely crazy. The future scares them. They fear the computer industry, knowing it is doing everything in its power to improve battery technology. So whether or not the automotive industry invests in research, they'll end up with better (higher power density and lower prices) anyway. They don't have to do anything. The by-product of portable computers, cell-phones, MP3 players, bluetooth devices, digital cameras, DVD players, etc. will be something the hybrids will also take advantage of. And of course for spite, I sometimes point out how biodiesel causes increased NOx emissions. That really ticks them off, especially with all the recent attention to ethanol... which does exactly the opposite. The fact that I've been using E10 in my Prius for over 6 years irritates too. Both the diesel and the "assist" hybrid supporters have a lot to lose. So special occasions like now (ULSD availability) invites their efforts to distract from the ultimate goals of *BOTH* emission & consumption reduction. JOHN Until I read this post I had respect for your passion and enthusiasm for hybrids and I took in some of what you wrote even if I did not agree 100%. All that is gone, with me, you have lost all credibility and validation. You have said in so many words in this post that all you are out to do is antagonize and discredit anyone with an opposing view. Considering you up-hill battle I do understand you antagonistic posture, but I take offence to you blatantly admitting too it.
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: john1701a (Oct 15, 2006 12:06 pm) Actually, I think a lot of people will agree with me when I say your posts are kind of pathetically amusing. I particularly love how you never answer anyone else's questions, rather you try to avoid them by changing the subject. You're like a petulant child on the wrong side of an argument. |
|
|
Replying to: john1701a (Oct 15, 2006 7:43 am) I just looked at the American Lung Association site. Funny they did not mention smog as a factor for lung disease. They do mention several times in there initial statements that SMOKING is the leading cause. But then the subject was sinus and allergies. They are not related to lung disease that I know of. When I point out the major cause which is Pollen you change to some other area that suits your lost cause. You are trying to make an argument with no facts or data to back it up. No one here is denying that LEV, ULEV, SULEV & PZEV are sets of rules from the EPA. My argument is the EPA & CARB make the rules to fit the agenda. With little or no research into the practicality. Cases in point: CARB & to a lesser extent the EPA have the idea that a car can burn fuel and not pollute at all. CARB passed the 10% ZEV mandate. The Clinton administration got the automakers involved with PNGV. We were subsidizing the automakers building a hybrid. Toyota was left out of the government giveaway and started their own hybrid research. Japan was subsidizing the R&D for hybrids trying to live up to the soon to be signed Kyoto treaty. All this high tech complexity yields a hybrid that is not as clean as the VW non-hybrids. So where is the advantage other than you pay $3k and up premium to save a few hundred bucks in gas bills. Not practical. HYBRIDS are not practical for mainstream AMERICANS. For someone that is so into super clean emissions I would be ashamed driving a Prius that only rates an EPA "8" in 45 out of the 50 states. Shameful just shameful 
|
|
You are here:
Forums
Automotive News & Views Hybrids & Diesels - Deals or Duds?
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
