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Automotive News & Views Hybrids & Diesels - Deals or Duds? 
5196 messages, Last post on Oct 16, 2006 at 6:55 AM
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The technology, along with the car's lighter materials and aerodynamic design -- its shape was inspired by a tropical fish -- allows it to achieve about 70 miles per gallon, according to the company. "This is a highly efficient, super-clean diesel that doesn't have any compromise in performance," said Dennis B. Fitzgibbons, director of public policy for DaimlerChrysler in Washington. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/06/AR2005060601842.html
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 07, 2005 11:11 am) I think of late credit goes to VW for being the almost lone voice" in the desert so to speak" marketing their TDI products in the USA. I have read (might be true or not) that TDI's are app 4% of their product line. As most folks know, MB a while back sold diesels for a good while and then decided the market was too thin.The new MB E320 CTDI is quite the awesome machine. The other funny thing is it is almost tailor made for the USA road system. Also in the USA the TOTAL passenger car diesel fleet is app 2.3-2.9%. So indeed it is a very rarified population. In getting the Jetta TDI, I also compared it with with/against the Prius. The price was something like 28k vs 18k. It is hard enough getting B/E against a gasser Jetta. However I think that is a function of having to get more money for the low volume of TDI's more than any inherent cost difference.
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Replying to: ruking1 (Jun 07, 2005 11:26 am) The hybrid is not the only option in the world to save fuel. It is still unproven for longevity. When we have a quite a few hitting 200k miles with little or no trouble my viewpoint may change. When CA legislators become cognizant of the advantages of modern diesel technology the door may again open up. |
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I had plum forgot about the Euro delivery plan. It would be nice again to be back in Europe, to break in a car without having to worry about speeding tickets on the Euro continent. By the time it is ready to ship, one might have more than the 7500 miles you need to register a NEW (translate: used/old) TDI in CA.
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Historically speaking, for a new or alternate technology to supplant an old one, it has to perform at a substantially BETTER level than the old one, or has to demonstrate substantial and obvious benefits over the old one. (e.g., CDs vs. cassette tape as an example of a successful transplant, and solar vs. natural gas as a not so successful transplant). Since neither hybrids or diesels can do this against a 2005 highly efficient plain old gas engine, anymore than solar power can outperform the modern gas furnace, I don't see the market for these cars, either diesel or hybrid, being more than a couple of %. There simply aren't enough advantages at this time to be clearly and irrefutably demonstrated to the average consumer. Hybrids don't pay for themselves fast enough, and diesel fuels are expensive and not always readily available. If I had to choose between hybrid and diesel, I'd choose diesel because there is going to be nothing as old as last year's electronics. At least I'll be able to repair my 5 year old diesel without a PhD. |
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Replying to: ruking1 (Jun 07, 2005 12:59 pm) 7500 miles?? There aren't that many roads in Europe! Unless you are planning a 6 month vacation... |
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7500 miles is more of the miles you need on a new car to register it in CA as used. Oh the things you have to do to make it happen!  It does need to be said that currently one in 4 (gasser) stations carry diesel. On the subject of "availability" I for one have NEVER had even remotely what I would consider to be a problem or lack of convenience.in getting diesel fuel. I also came from that mindset before I got the TDI. Now the fact is there is a whole "alternative universe" on the road, but the fact of the matter is most of them are side by side with the gasser communities. Inlight of the emphasis on alternative fuels, then the so called environmentalist should stop the belly aching especially when even they do nothing about it. As for me, given the same price for fuel, I'd chose biodiesel in a heartbeat.
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Replying to: ruking1 (Jun 07, 2005 2:28 pm) it's no BIG inconvenience, but even at your odds there's a 3 in 4 chance you won't find what you are looking for. And besides it's stinky and gets all over your hands. Again, no biggie, a handi-wipe away. Not enough to discourage me from buying one. The price is more of a discouragement. It's more than or equal to, premium unleaded here in California (most places anyway). Biodiesel is, of course, even more than that. Besides, Bio isn't for everyone. A new Benz owner can't use it without voiding his warranty. That's no fun. So there is work to be done to make diesels competitive with gas cars I think. More stations, lower prices, cleaner fuel. These are certainly achievable goals.
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| ...for a diesel pump, since the stuff's de facto outlawed for personal use. Diesel is much easier to find once you get away from the CARB states. All those pickups with Duramax, Powerstroke, and Cummins diesels have to fill up somewhere, and so do all those Kubotas, Massey-Fergusons and John Deeres. The gas station up the road put in a separate pump for off-road diesel a few years ago. | |
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jun 07, 2005 4:40 pm) You should check out the BP/ARCO ULSD. I don't get that strong diesel smell and it evaporates quicker than regular #2. It is priced in So CA between regular and Premium. You only fill up every 600 miles in a Passat TDI. The power is so much smoother than the Passat gasser I test drove first. Also quieter at 75 mph. Times for diesel cars are a changing. |
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