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Automotive News & Views Hybrids & Diesels - Deals or Duds? 
5196 messages, Last post on Oct 16, 2006 at 6:55 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Mar 21, 2006 8:21 am) In order to investigate the "Diesel Premium" for ULSD diesel vehicles, I will use Toyota vehicles sold in UK as an example. Yaris 1.3 VVT-i 87 hp gasoline 1.4 D-4D 90 hp diesel $1049 dollars increase the diesel option (a 1.09% increase in cost) Corolla 1.4 VVT-i 96 hp gasoline 1.4 D-4D 90 hp diesel $1039 increase for the diesel option (a 1.1% increase in cost) Avensis (model similar to North American Camry) 1.8 VVT-i 129 hp gasoline 2.0 D-4D 116 hp diesel $647 increase in for the diesel option (1.05% increase in cost) Same trim and same transmission was used, no tricks to attempt to deceive, and no assumptions needed as these are all current models with actual MSRP prices. 1.1% is the largest cost difference, and the nothing more than $1100 for "Diesel Premium". Something smells rotten with the 8% figure quoted in the Detroit News article. All of the Toyota engines gas and diesel are Euro IV compliant and all of the diesels emit LESS C02 than the comparable gasoline version. And all of the diesels are already doing this on ULSD! If the domestic manufacturers can not introduce diesel vehicles at a 1.1% and $1100 or less cost increase, our only hope is for Toyota and Honda to introduce diesels in North America. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Mar 21, 2006 9:41 am) I have (unless otherwiese foot noted) been always talking about the passenger vehicle fleet and NOT big rigs.
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Fuel consumption mpg Urban, Extra-Urban, Combined and CO2 emissions of Toyota UK vehicles. Please note the figures are Impirical gallon and not converted. C02 g/km Aygo 1.4 diesel Urban 53.3 Extra-Urban 83.1 Combined 68.9 C02 109 Prius 1.5 VVT-i Hybrid Urban 56.5 Extra-Urban 67.3 Combined 65.7 C02 104 Yaris 1.4 D-4D Urban 52.3 Extra-Urban 70.6 Combined 62.8 CO2 119 Yaris 1.3 VVT-i Urban 39.2 Extra-Urban 53.3 Combined 47.1 CO2 141 Corolla 1.4 D-4D Urban 48.7 Extra-Urban 65.7 Combined 58.9 CO2 128 Corolla 1.4 VVT-i Urban 33.6 Extra-Urban 49.6 Combined 42.2 CO2 159 Avensis 2.0 D4-D Urban 37.7 Extra-Urban 57.6 Combined 48.7 CO2 155 Avensis 1.8 VVT-i Urban 30.1 Extra-Urban 48.7 Combined 39.2 CO2 171 Diesel is clearly the most cost effective technology to reduce fuel consumption. Prius Hybrid is the overall most effective technology to reduce fuel consumption and emissions if cost is not a factor. Corolla Diesel 5 door MSRP x 132% = Prius MSRP. Are you willing to pay a 32% increased cost for an 11% increase in mileage?
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Replying to: ruking1 (Mar 21, 2006 9:54 am) you wrote: If the logic on this board is any indication hybrids advocates say the hybrids are "THE answer" for those GAS GUZZLING SUV's I responded: the big rigs probably all belong as diesels given the present technology. |
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Replying to: moparbad (Mar 21, 2006 10:16 am) If the vehicle is too small or uncomfortable then it's out of the comparo, it doesnt matter what the price is.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Mar 21, 2006 10:34 am) As in all the comparo's here neither the Corolla nor the Avensis is the exact model for comparison purposes. Just as here the Prius is very precisely placed between the two Yes, Toyta was astute in making the Prius unique. If there was a non-hybrid Prius the sales of the hybrid Prius would tank.
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Replying to: moparbad (Mar 21, 2006 10:50 am) But the Prius is unique and so it's successful.. Now the TCH this year will be a different story. That will tell a lot. Do buyers shun it because it's more expensive than the ICE 4c or do they snap it up because it's in the same range as the ICE V6 but with much better FE? |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Mar 21, 2006 8:21 am) 1. The article talks about increased fuel filter maintenance. Not so. The fuel will be cleaner. 2. Lubricity. A lot of mixed info on that. Maybe for real old diesels, but I doubt it. My guess is that oil companies will add something to remedy this. Add 2% biodiesel to get that lubricity back. 3. Additional cost of ULSD, about 4-7cents per gallon. Gasoline goes ULS too so expect about the same additional cost. 4. Price differential. That assumption is worthless. I am finding diesel for less than regular, though not at the same station. 5. For MY 2005, a diesel engine was a $275 option in a Passat. In my CRD it was $846. |
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I went to an interesting site link title Pay the a visit. You will discover that in many places diesel costs less than mid-grade gasoline and only a few cents more than regular gasoline. |
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Replying to: winter2 (Mar 22, 2006 3:54 pm) You can go to vw.com and build your own Jetta. Base starts at about $18K, and after you finish building your base car goes to about $18,500 for the gasoline model. Now if you select the TDI option and build your base car with a few reasonable options that are STD. on an '06 HCH it comes to $25,000. That's a $6,500 premium for the TDI diesel. How much fuel could $6,500 buy? You'll end up with a more expensive car, a noisier car that is more prone for breakdown, less MPG potential- and have to remember which stations sell diesel fuel pay more per gallon. All that and a car that typically will not last as long as a gasoline model. |
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